open carry airsoft?

urbanwarrior · Sep 21, 2008

If I as a LEO approach you as a potentially armed person, please understand, you ARE NOT reaching for anything. I don't know you from Adam. We, as humans, don't walk around with personality profiles or backgrounds tattooed on our foreheads.
As far as being proned out, that depends on YOU. Act like an ass...get treated like an ass. Once again, my safety is paramount, and also you all need to understand where I am coming from with my views, which are a direct result of where I work. If I worked in a low crime, rural, police friendly area, my sense of awareness would most certainly be much lower.
Security Guards, Armored Car Guards, Dept of Corrections and the like all have what fivepointstar pointed out, a license to carry during, to and from work only. For those folks to carry in any other capacity would require them to obtain a concealed carry permit.
Dst...from what I see you are not in Maryland. I will not even profess to have a clue in the world what the laws are in NC. However, I am pretty well versed on the laws of Maryland. So my ignorance to your laws is admitted, but to the laws of my state, I am educated. Which brings me to my next point...LEO's are given a set of laws for the area (federal, state, local) they police. Therefore, as a LEO you become accustomed to how things should be or look while you are at work and you respond to abnormalities accordingly. In an inner city or urban area where I work open carry is something that if I see it I am programmed to investigate because its not legal and out of the ordinary. Because as far as I know only uniformed on duty LEO's or the like are the only ones allowed to open carry in Maryland, otherwise it must be concealed. In other states and rural areas it is much more accepted and legal and the police in that area know the laws and are accustomed to seeing people in the general public with guns on their hips, which IMHO there should be more of.

Splitter · Sep 21, 2008

Well, I for one am glad to see some LEO's that beliieve in the 2A and also in carrying legally.

The problem, IMHO, is not how the LEO would treat someone with that is legally carrying, the problem is the anti-gun culture/government in this state. The environment is such that anyone with a gun is considered dangerous. So few people have carry or CCW permits that the chances of a police officer rollig up on one of them as maybe 1:100 compared to rolling up on a REAL bad guy with a gun.

I mean, look at it....we have had instance on here where neighbors have gotten spooked just knowing people own guns and call the cops. We are in a "guns are evil" type of place. Many of us keep our legal gun ownership private simply because we do not want to potentially be harrassed.

Very sad, and the LEO's have to work in this environment.

Splitter

3rdRcn · Sep 21, 2008

Dst said:
...I'm not a LEO, I've never been shot at and neither have any of my friends...

Well, most of your friends haven't been shot at.

I have to chime in here, anyone who has posted in this thread talking about some sort of abuse because they are carrying and the cops were called and they got "harassed" or a LEO "planted them in the prone" is dead wrong. If an LEO came up to me or felt he had to draw his gun on me because a citizen saw my firearm would get nothing but complete respect and cooperation. If you haven't walked a mile in another man's shoes then you speak with nothing but ignorance. If a citizen saw my gun then it was by accident and I am not concealing very well, period. If the police were called and they approached me, either with guns drawn or hands on ready to engage, the very first thing I would say is that I have a permit in my pocket. I would follow his or her instructions immediately until they discovered I am not a threat. They are DOING THEIR JOB, I will not take it personally, unless they exceed what would be reasonable in detaining me after they discovered I was legal, even then I will comply and let my attorney take care of it from there. Who knows, I may even get to retire from the settlement.

The military and combat are basically the same mentality, I see a gun or someone says he's got a gun and you will get my undivided attention, if you do something stupid then I will shoot you to kill you, period. I was or I am going home to my family, I do not wish to kill you but will do so if I feel threatened in any way, you reach for your gun or start the muzzle towards me and you made the decision for me. If you cooperate and obey my instructions you will also go home to your family unharmed, just a little later than you planned.

I have a recent personal experience in a cop (actually two, one state and one Balt. Co) seeing me carrying. I was going to get a haircut and had a vest on because I was OWB that day, my barber said I was next and I removed my vest to sit in the chair. Which BTW, the carry permit does not say it must be concealed and you are not breaking any law by not being concealed IIRC. The MSP do HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you conceal, for obvious reasons that have been stated here by the LEO's. Back to my story, it took about 10 seconds for them to notice that I didn't have a badge on. In a very polite fashion the MSP guy asked if I was LEO, to which I answered no, but I do have a carry permit. Neither one asked to see it, guess I don't look like a thug, and the MSP said "cool" and that was the end of it. Both of them did however make it a point to discuss how I got so lucky to have a permit in this state and they also made a point to tell me to have a good day as they left the barber shop from a very pleasant conversation.

Urban warrior, you do not know me nor have you ever met me, a few of the LEO's on this board have and I go shooting regularly with quite a few. I will tell you though that if you ever feel the need to ask me if I am legal and want me to prove it because you feel threatened by me, PLEASE DO. I would and will comply with anything you ask of me and I am SURE that any one of you would respect that and me in that encounter. Do your job guys and stay safe! I appreciate the job you guys do for the shit wages that you do it for and by all means, if you don't feel safe then feel free to "harass" me until you do, which I am certain will be only moments into your "harassment" of me.

Thanks again for the job you guys do. :thumbsup:

novus collectus · Sep 21, 2008

fivepointstar said:
Novus...I too am not challenging you because you're a wealth of information. A colleague that I work with, her husband works for an armoured car service and we had this conversation. His permit only allows him to carry on duty and to and from work and while in uniform. I would think he would have to apply for an additional permit if he wanted to CCW.

The devil is in the details. I think it is not so much that the handgun carry permit allows open carry, but that the prohibition on concealed and open carry exempts permit holders.

§ 4-203.

(a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) This section does not prohibit:

(1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:

(i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;

(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;

(iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;

(iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;

(v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or

(vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

Another interesting thing is that permit holders can carry a concealed weapon of any kind including switchblades because 4-101 also broadly excludes permit holders from the prohibition.

Huh....you really got me thinking when it comes to Antiques. I enjoy the challenge.

"An antique firearm, defined as one manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof which is not designed for firing fixed ammunition or which uses fixed ammunition no longer manufactured in the United States and no longer readily available commercially, is exempted from state law."

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MDSL.pdf

I would concur on your statement regarding "antique" firearms and open carry. This appears to be a loophole!! Open carry and no permit required. I would figure that the only exception would be theatrical display but I stand corrected.

And there are two funny things about this. 4-101 which prohibits the concealed carry of any dangerous weapon exempts handguns, but it does not delineate between modern and antique handguns. It might be possible that antique handguns are not prohibitted from being worn concealed and since antiques are exempted by 4-203, there is nothing else in state law preventing their carry at all (except in a car when loaded).

However, it seems as if local law can restrict antique handgun possession for the most part because the state preemption only seems to apply to modern handguns and rifles, shotguns and regulated firearms. But the problem is that some local laws are still preempted because they include modern handguns and long guns in the language. Also, some local laws mention the guns being loaded, but there is definitely a state preemption over local law regarding possession on even antique ammunition and ammunition components, so therefore I guess a lawyer could argue the laws about the antiques being loaded is preempted by the state.....but I am not a lawyer.

novus collectus · Sep 21, 2008

urbanwarrior said:
...Because as far as I know only uniformed on duty LEO's or the like are the only ones allowed to open carry in Maryland, otherwise it must be concealed. ...

There are a number of situations where someone can open carry without a permit.
There is apparently no state law on the open carry of loaded long guns.
One can open carry unloaded handguns when on the way to a repair shop, place of sale, informal target shoot, hunting, etc.
One can open or concealed carry a loaded handgun on their own property, where they reside, where they work with permission of the manager (within the curtillage).
Due to an appeals court case, one can have a loaded handgun on private property or private roadways not generally open to the public it seems.

Anyone with a handgun permit can apparently wear openly (from what I have read on this board this is not advisable though even if legal because any conflict might be an excuse for the MSP to revoke the permit). The MD handgun permit is not a concealed carry permit, it is a handgun carry permit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USA_Carry_Map.jpg
Ironically enough, even Washington DC is a licensed open carry "state".

There may be local laws against the open carry of long guns, but there are two state preemptions about this.

urbanwarrior · Sep 21, 2008

3rdRcn...the thanks goes to you.
novus...you are in fact a shithouse google-fu EXPERT! You are a veritable plethora of information. I do think we have gotten a little sidetracked on this topic though, but I do think we all agree. I am here because I believe in the Constitution and moreover the 2nd Amendment. I own and carry because of those two things and I NEVER want to see that change. Please do not think I am a jerk just because of what you read here. I am looking forward to shooting with many of you in the future and forming lasting relationships whether on here or in person. Maybe we can have a few beers and a civil discussion or dispute and get to know each other, because face to face is much easier to communicate and get your point across.

novus collectus · Sep 21, 2008

urbanwarrior said:
3rdRcn...the thanks goes to you.
novus...you are in fact a shithouse google-fu EXPERT! You are a veritable plethora of information. I do think we have gotten a little sidetracked on this topic though, but I do think we all agree. I am here because I believe in the Constitution and moreover the 2nd Amendment. I own and carry because of those two things and I NEVER want to see that change. Please do not think I am a jerk just because of what you read here. I am looking forward to shooting with many of you in the future and forming lasting relationships whether on here or in person. Maybe we can have a few beers and a civil discussion or dispute and get to know each other, because face to face is much easier to communicate and get your point across.

S1gnal · Sep 21, 2008

Urbanwarrior I couldn't have put it better myself.

mvee · Sep 21, 2008

novus collectus said:
There are a number of situations where someone can open carry without a permit.
There is apparently no state law on the open carry of loaded long guns.
One can open carry unloaded handguns when on the way to a repair shop, place of sale, informal target shoot, hunting, etc.
One can open or concealed carry a loaded handgun on their own property, where they reside, where they work with permission of the manager (within the curtillage).
Due to an appeals court case, one can have a loaded handgun on private property or private roadways not generally open to the public it seems.

Anyone with a handgun permit can apparently wear openly (from what I have read on this board this is not advisable though even if legal because any conflict might be an excuse for the MSP to revoke the permit). The MD handgun permit is not a concealed carry permit, it is a handgun carry permit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USA_Carry_Map.jpg
Ironically enough, even Washington DC is a licensed open carry "state".

There may be local laws against the open carry of long guns, but there are two state preemptions about this.

As I understand it (and I'm not a lawyer), one can also carry concealed unloaded handguns without a permit (when allowed to carry when on the way to a repair shop, place of sale, informal target shoot, hunting etc)

novus collectus · Sep 21, 2008

mvee said:
As I understand it (and I'm not a lawyer), one can also carry concealed unloaded handguns without a permit (when allowed to carry when on the way to a repair shop, place of sale, informal target shoot, hunting etc)

That's the way I read it too. Still has to be in an enclosed holster though.

Dst · Sep 21, 2008

urbanwarrior said:
Dst...from what I see you are not in Maryland. I will not even profess to have a clue in the world what the laws are in NC. However, I am pretty well versed on the laws of Maryland. ... In other states and rural areas it is much more accepted and legal and the police in that area know the laws and are accustomed to seeing people in the general public with guns on their hips, which IMHO there should be more of.

Thanks in no small part to this forum, I'm very well acquainted with the laws of Maryland, and better acquainted with the laws of PA, VA, DE, and NJ as well than I think I would have been. That said, I don't assume that discussions of gun laws on a clearly MD forum should include the laws of Cary, NC, just because I'm here. I don't go for that entitlement crap.

And clearly, 3rd, you aren't my friend. :innocent0

3rdRcn · Sep 21, 2008

Dst said:
And clearly, 3rd, you aren't my friend.

Guess I'll have to call Al and see if the price just went up on that car.

bean93x · Sep 21, 2008

smores said:
I hate you. I want these.

i figured jeep would drool over it but he hasn't said squat about it.

i'd pick one up if i played scenario ball more but it would be a waste of money too me when i already have 7 markers and can pick up a real sig (surplus) for the price of one of them

mudskipper · Sep 24, 2008

Look LEO's, I understand your points. I do. We all do. There is NO misunderstanding going on here. We get it. You've made your points with absolute clarity.

Some of us just don't like it. Probably alot of us, certainly more than you'd ever imagine.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

If I had a CCW permit - a problem I don't think I'll ever have to worry about in this state - I'd be way, WAY more worried about getting assaulted, shot or killed by a police officer than any crimminal, based simply on the posts in this thread.

The very explanations you've offered here in this thread illustrate, and more importantly reinforce, that fear. I don't think that was your intent, but rather an unintended consequence.

When you say things like "yeah, I'd expect to get prone'd out myself if that happenend to me", it doesn't make us think any better of the situtation. It just tells us that even YOU would be regarded as a presumed crimminal by other LEO's. And that whole presumtive mindset is what is most offending to us.

Or if, God forbid, I ever need to show or use a firearm in my home or on my property to defend myself against a crimminal, I can pretty much count on being treated like a crimminal by the LEO's I've called 911 for help (Help that will arrive, by the way, after the fact). I'd fully expect to be approached at gunpoint in front of my family, cuffed, and placed in a patrol car until the mess is sorted out. I'd never expect to see my firearm again, and would count myself lucky if my others weren't confiscated in the interim as well - "until the investigation is over" as we hear so often. Hopefully, I won't be charged with attempted murder or murder for defending myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm.

And that's the "help" I'd expect to receive after calling 911....

I know you guys have a dangerous job. We all get that. But try imagining what it would be like to be worried about not just cimminals - but also cops.

shawn · Sep 25, 2008

mudskipper said:
Look LEO's, I understand your points. I do. We all do. There is NO misunderstanding going on here. We get it. You've made your points with absolute clarity.

Some of us just don't like it. Probably alot of us, certainly more than you'd ever imagine.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

If I had a CCW permit - a problem I don't think I'll ever have to worry about in this state - I'd be way, WAY more worried about getting assaulted, shot or killed by a police officer than any crimminal, based simply on the posts in this thread.

The very explanations you've offered here in this thread illustrate, and more importantly reinforce, that fear. I don't think that was your intent, but rather an unintended consequence.

When you say things like "yeah, I'd expect to get prone'd out myself if that happenend to me", it doesn't make us think any better of the situtation. It just tells us that even YOU would be regarded as a presumed crimminal by other LEO's. And that whole presumtive mindset is what is most offending to us.

Or if, God forbid, I ever need to show or use a firearm in my home or on my property to defend myself against a crimminal, I can pretty much count on being treated like a crimminal by the LEO's I've called 911 for help (Help that will arrive, by the way, after the fact). I'd fully expect to be approached at gunpoint in front of my family, cuffed, and placed in a patrol car until the mess is sorted out. I'd never expect to see my firearm again, and would count myself lucky if my others weren't confiscated in the interim as well - "until the investigation is over" as we hear so often. Hopefully, I won't be charged with attempted murder or murder for defending myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm.

And that's the "help" I'd expect to receive after calling 911....

I know you guys have a dangerous job. We all get that. But try imagining what it would be like to be worried about not just cimminals - but also cops.

Excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fivepointstar · Sep 25, 2008

mudskipper said:
Look LEO's, I understand your points. I do. We all do. There is NO misunderstanding going on here. We get it. You've made your points with absolute clarity.

Some of us just don't like it. Probably alot of us, certainly more than you'd ever imagine.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

If I had a CCW permit - a problem I don't think I'll ever have to worry about in this state - I'd be way, WAY more worried about getting assaulted, shot or killed by a police officer than any crimminal, based simply on the posts in this thread.

The very explanations you've offered here in this thread illustrate, and more importantly reinforce, that fear. I don't think that was your intent, but rather an unintended consequence.

When you say things like "yeah, I'd expect to get prone'd out myself if that happenend to me", it doesn't make us think any better of the situtation. It just tells us that even YOU would be regarded as a presumed crimminal by other LEO's. And that whole presumtive mindset is what is most offending to us.

Or if, God forbid, I ever need to show or use a firearm in my home or on my property to defend myself against a crimminal, I can pretty much count on being treated like a crimminal by the LEO's I've called 911 for help (Help that will arrive, by the way, after the fact). I'd fully expect to be approached at gunpoint in front of my family, cuffed, and placed in a patrol car until the mess is sorted out. I'd never expect to see my firearm again, and would count myself lucky if my others weren't confiscated in the interim as well - "until the investigation is over" as we hear so often. Hopefully, I won't be charged with attempted murder or murder for defending myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm.

And that's the "help" I'd expect to receive after calling 911....

I know you guys have a dangerous job. We all get that. But try imagining what it would be like to be worried about not just cimminals - but also cops.

OK...you have a right to feel that way and who am I to change the way you feel. I'm an instructor in our academy and I teach Officer Safety and Defensive Tactics for entry level and inservice LEO and we teach "high risk" stops. BUT....I also teach common sense as well.

We get a few hunting complaints or citizens blowing off rounds on their property....PERFECTLY legal on their own property and I hope my guys use common sense that they don't prone out a property owner on their own property. Its just common sense.

On the street, if we get the 12 yr old with the air soft and even the fake AK-47 I've been seeing you problably won't see the barrel of my .40 but also don't be a d*ck if i'm doing my job to ensure everyones safety. But I'll be sure my approach is safe and I'm prepared for the worse.

Me and my guys use common sense and depending on the nature of the call dictates the response but using the highest sense of officer safety. If the call is a robbery or ADW, be 100% certain it will be a "high risk" stop and I will kick my guys butts if they don't because I'm the one explaining to their spouse why they screwed up. Ain't going to happen.

I use to work outside of DC and I can't even count the # of guns I ran into all cops, FBI, USSS or whatever, non of them were proned out. But if the field interview is preceeded by a hot call, things will change. Me myself, been stopped several times, even at BWI before 9/11 and made it all the way to the terminal to meet my mom at the gate....and no guns pointed at me.

One of the last calls for a home invasion I went to, drug dealers kicked in the door b/c his son was selling look alike drugs (his son was a piece of you know what), the homeowner went to the neighbor and got a double barrel after he kicked the thuds out and the shotgun was returned. The homeowner didn't feel safe and it was late so I went backto the neighbors house, asked if he could borrow it for hte night, and walked it over to him. Last thing i said to him was, you need to protect your family!!

This job is common sense!!! MUD, you don't sound like the person that holds up liquor stores or snatches a purse from old ladies so you don't have anything to worry about anything. its the JoJo's or Master G's in the ghetto who's got a .32 in their dip that have to worry.

urbanwarrior · Sep 26, 2008

mudskipper said:
Look LEO's, I understand your points. I do. We all do. There is NO misunderstanding going on here. We get it. You've made your points with absolute clarity.

Some of us just don't like it. Probably alot of us, certainly more than you'd ever imagine.

Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

If I had a CCW permit - a problem I don't think I'll ever have to worry about in this state - I'd be way, WAY more worried about getting assaulted, shot or killed by a police officer than any crimminal, based simply on the posts in this thread.

The very explanations you've offered here in this thread illustrate, and more importantly reinforce, that fear. I don't think that was your intent, but rather an unintended consequence.

When you say things like "yeah, I'd expect to get prone'd out myself if that happenend to me", it doesn't make us think any better of the situtation. It just tells us that even YOU would be regarded as a presumed crimminal by other LEO's. And that whole presumtive mindset is what is most offending to us.

Or if, God forbid, I ever need to show or use a firearm in my home or on my property to defend myself against a crimminal, I can pretty much count on being treated like a crimminal by the LEO's I've called 911 for help (Help that will arrive, by the way, after the fact). I'd fully expect to be approached at gunpoint in front of my family, cuffed, and placed in a patrol car until the mess is sorted out. I'd never expect to see my firearm again, and would count myself lucky if my others weren't confiscated in the interim as well - "until the investigation is over" as we hear so often. Hopefully, I won't be charged with attempted murder or murder for defending myself or my family from someone intent on doing us harm.

And that's the "help" I'd expect to receive after calling 911....

I know you guys have a dangerous job. We all get that. But try imagining what it would be like to be worried about not just cimminals - but also cops.

Ok...I wasn't going to respond but I just felt I had to. I will say this is the last reply to this nonsense you will get from me.
fivepointstar...its not about changing someones mind, its about educating the ignorant. For the rest of you who understand and have no "beef" or basic hatred in general for the police because your mommy or wife was swept away by one, this is not meant for you. Those of you for which it is intended, go do what ever it is you do and continue to be professional martyrs.
As far as the blunt truth, for the most part I am struggling to find the thread you have been reading because a good part of whatever you are talking about makes no sense nor does it have any relevance here.
Now, for being worried about getting assaulted or killed by the police, I hate to tell you but I can't remember the last time we killed the "wrong" person. We are pretty good at getting that right. At no point in this thread did anyone say we wanted to kill anyone. We did however, make it clear, that we will take any and all necessary precautions for our own safety as well as the general public, that would be YOU, so the best outcome is what happens. If, in the process, you were to get your little feelings hurt, well I'm very sorry. But I bet you a dozen donuts that pain goes away alot faster than the pain of a gun shot wound!
One thing that has always gotten to me is the fact that there are always these people out there, and you know who you are, who think they know more about the law and how to enforce it better than all the stupid f****** police. I have an open invitation for anyone who wants to ride with me for an 8 hour shift on a hot July night, and make sure you bring a spare pair of panties, and at the end not have a whole new perspective on how incompetent they actually are at my job! Because I guarantee you at the end you will say "That emmeffer is completely crazy and there ain't no way you would catch me dead doing this sh*t!" "And you do it for how much?!"
Ah yes, lets all hope you never have to actually use your firearm on another human being. Having been there myself, you haven't even earned the right to have a discussion with me about that. Because as much fun as it sounds like it "would" be, your life stops and when you live through it, your life changes forever. If "I" showed up at your home in the aftermath of you having to use deadly force, the only thing I would be to you is compassionate! The incident would be investigated, because it HAS to be. Your firearm would be confiscated, because it HAS to be. At the "conclusion of the investigation," if you were found to be justified, you wouldn't be charged, but only after the Grand Jury cleared you, and yes it works that way for LEO's too, even when they discharge or use deadly force in the course of their duties. You would also get your firearm back, and NO the rest of your firearms wouldn't be confiscated because they had nothing to do with it, remember you shot someone...not them, so you can hang it over the mantle like some sort of trophy or something. Unless of course you were human like the rest of us, and in that case you might not want that type of reminder around and you might ask the stupid f****** police to dispose of it for you. Which, we would gladly do, because we are there for you pal.
For arriving "after the fact," I'm very sorry, but the crappy salary you pay me to risk my life everyday doesn't allow me to provide for my family and buy a shiny new CRYSTAL BALL so I know where to be and exactly when to be there!
As far as YOU knowing how dangerous my job is, you are home at night sleeping under the very blanket of protection and security myself and every other LEO in this world provides for you, while I am at work risking my neck and MY family is hoping I make it home alive, and that I didn't hesitate because of ass backward logic like this! You have no idea what my job is like.

fivepointstar · Sep 26, 2008

urbanwarrior said:
Ok...I wasn't going to respond but I just felt I had to. I will say this is the last reply to this nonsense you will get from me.
fivepointstar...its not about changing someones mind, its about educating the ignorant.QUOTE]

Urban....you can "educate" people until you are blue in the face but you still won't be able to change people minds of those who are unwilling. You know exactly who those people are...those people who always want to get the last word in OR those who will always think they are right regardless of what you say or what are the facts. I just challenge them to open their mind to the other possibilities...changing thier perception is up to them.

BTW....you CNT team was up this past week for our school. you guys have one hell of a team!!

urbanwarrior · Sep 26, 2008

Yeah those guys are very good...I have several friends on that team.

MPSP100 · Sep 27, 2008

I'll tell you folks a funny story....I was working with a security company (just oberving how they operate) and we were doing vacant apartment checks. Well, this particular company, likes to wear full spec SWAT gear (literally). Well, we had just finished checking a apartment. Well, one of the guys re-holstered his Glock, and the thought was (when did he get his permit?). So, anyway, this guy err character likes to carry two expandable batons as well. Well, later that night, he draws his Glock, aims it at his colleague and fires. I'm like, (before he fires it) don't tell me we are about to have another Walter Reed incident here. Welp, to my damn amazement, it was a freakin' BB gun. I couldn't believe it, I was like are you freakin' kiddin' me? You guys let this clown run around with a air soft? All I could think of was liability. What if you were with the police, and they are thinking that is a real gun, and if the shit hits the fan, theres another gun in the fight. Sad, sooo freakin' sad.

open carry airsoft?

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