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Old September 24th, 2021, 07:21 PM #721
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Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Does the court need to really go there though?

As explained before NY can't fight on the CCW restriction front since they offer no alternative. The court can simply accept both parties' belief that CCW is a form of carry that each can live with.
As far as the limitations go plaintiffs are simply wanting to carry in areas already deemed non-sensitive by the state by virtue of allowing carry with the proper license. Most other states don't have the myriad of licenses that NY does. It's full carry or nothing.
A case dealing with sensitive places will be for another day. NY just can't simply claim that other people nearby automatically nixes the right.
The court needs to go somewhere. NY is certainly fighting on the CCW restriction front because it is part of the historical prohibition. NY is even arguing that they allow some form carry outside the home. The fact that there is no open carry may not matter based on the question that is before the court. The arguments presented don't really prevent the court from adopting the historical prohibition, which the court has already provided some discussion on in Heller.

The long conference is on Mon and we will likely hear any grants by the end of next week. There will also be a response by NYSRPA in about 3 weeks that may better address these issues. Something may also get introduces at oral argument. We need to wait and see what happens during these events to better understand how the court may resolve these issues.
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Old September 24th, 2021, 11:26 PM #722
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They are of course arguing this, however, the argument fails when we see that NY has off limits areas even with a full carry license.
NYC being off limits to licensed upstate residents without the special permission of the police commissioner hopefully unsettles the conservative Justices.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 10:08 AM #723
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NYC being off limits to licensed upstate residents without the special permission of the police commissioner hopefully unsettles the conservative Justices.
If plaintiffs win the NYC endorsement should be automatic with good cause no longer enforceable.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 01:42 PM #724
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If plaintiffs win the NYC endorsement should be automatic with good cause no longer enforceable.
While it should, it may not be. The current arguments make the determination more subjective. This may lead to a narrower ruling with carveouts for NYC.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 02:45 PM #725
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Originally Posted by Allen65 View Post
Not quite. NY could find that the two individual plaintiffs and every current member of NYSRPA have "proper cause" to be issued a permit.
That would be a slam dunk equal protection lawsuit.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 02:50 PM #726
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While it should, it may not be. The current arguments make the determination more subjective. This may lead to a narrower ruling with carveouts for NYC.
How so? Perhaps individual locations like schools & government buildings being packed like sardines may make things a bit tricky in NYC compared to upstate but a total carve out (like they have now) seems a non-starter unless the court is essentially willing to take defendants position that the 2A doesn't apply in urban areas.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 03:36 PM #727
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How so? Perhaps individual locations like schools & government buildings being packed like sardines may make things a bit tricky in NYC compared to upstate but a total carve out (like they have now) seems a non-starter unless the court is essentially willing to take defendants position that the 2A doesn't apply in urban areas.
I think Roberts is going to push the court to accept a narrower ruling than what you are suggesting. I don't think they are going to go so far as to say that the 2A doesn't apply in urban areas, but they may allow some kind of additional restrictions for urban areas.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 04:48 PM #728
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I think Roberts is going to push the court to accept a narrower ruling than what you are suggesting. I don't think they are going to go so far as to say that the 2A doesn't apply in urban areas, but they may allow some kind of additional restrictions for urban areas.
What could that be?

NY already has off limits areas which plaintiffs arenít challenging.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 04:50 PM #729
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I wouldn't be surprised if Roberts is left to concur in the judgement while Thomas writes his magnum opus.
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Old September 25th, 2021, 09:22 PM #730
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Line in Heller I found while trying to cross reference it against the respondent's brief:

"It was plainly the understanding in the post-Civil War Congress that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to use arms for self-defense."

The respondents seem like they're throwing spaghetti on the wall, using text, history, and tradition, or intermediate scrutiny, or a newspaper can't prove the legislature was racist, or the English were disarmed, or carrying a gun itself is causing terror, or if you're not hunting you're in Times Square or a school, so uphold or remand for full fact finding.

They also ignored Vermont being constitutional carry since a court decree in 1903.
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