RKI: Clergy carrying at their church

T-Man said:

I think the first one was the Book of Teddy Roosevelt.

The second is the hear of the issue facing churches - self sufficiency is not in the Bible. God knows the day we are coming home and nothin is going to change that.

So the question is balancing wisdom with the knowledge that we serve a mighty King and heaven is way, way better than here.

I am always torn.

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Jagzilla said:

All while I question if the state's anti-constitutional stance is willfully putting our children in worship at risk

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T-Man said:

It depends upon how your denomination works the establishment of each church. If you are a separate legal entity of which you are the head you may be able to apply for a wear and carry if you transport funds or equipment. If you make bank deposits, for example.

The issue would be establishing you are a business owner.

Otherwise, likely out of luck. You could try and apply but a general threat doesn't seem to cut it for MSP.

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Jagzilla said:

Yep.

All while I question if the state's anti-constitutional stance is willfully putting our children in worship at risk

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letmeoutpax said:

We have "trustees" who are the responsible parties that deal with the local government and utilities. Our local church body owns the building; it is not a denominational asset. Would the trustees be able to carry without a permit on the property the way a homeowner can?

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Maryland Criminal Law Section 4-203
Article - Criminal Law

§ 4-203.

(a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;
(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;
(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or
(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) This section does not prohibit:
(1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:
(i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;
(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;
(iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;
(iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;
(v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or
(vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

(7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:
(i) in the course of employment;
(ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and
(iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment; or

(8) the carrying or transporting of a signal pistol or other visual distress signal approved by the United States Coast Guard in a vessel on the waterways of the State or, if the signal pistol or other visual distress signal is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case, in a vehicle.

(c) (1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

(2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:
(i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $250 and not exceeding $2,500 or both; or
(ii) if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not less than 90 days.

(3) (i) If the person has previously been convicted once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

1. except as provided in item 2 of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 1 year and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

(4) (i) If the person has previously been convicted more than once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title, or of any combination of these crimes:

1. except as provided in item (2) of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. A. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

B. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iv) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

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Jagzilla said:

Yep.

All while I question if the state's anti-constitutional stance is willfully putting our children in worship at risk

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T-Man said:

It would appear that two arguments can be made.

1 - Owner of the business premises. This likely can be murky as technically the church is the owner of the premises not an individual.

2 - Supervisory personnel within the scope of employment with permission of owner/management, themselves.

#2 would seem to cover the situation but its Maryland firearms laws so...

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pbharvey said:

Unless you've had a direct conversation with him about it, that's not a safe assumption.
I know a lot of retired police officers who don't carry.

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