alot of inexpensive guns vs. afew quality firearms

Jimbob2.0 · Feb 20, 2010

A mix, and remember in many platforms quality yields deminishing returns. Also many of us upgrade our collection over time.

That said someday I desire to add a finely crafted safari gun to the ranks.

mike_in_md · Feb 20, 2010

One thing not mentioned that may impact your decison is that you should have a safe. Safes cost money to.

august1410 · Feb 20, 2010

I have found that some really hidden gems can be found "on the cheap". I've gotten a number of great shotguns for less than $200 apiece. It seems to be easier to do with long guns, if you do not have a C&R.

Markp · Feb 20, 2010

I think Kevp brings up a great point... I don't think that price really matters, what does matter is will the firearm perform when it matters. I won't compare an SKS with a seriously high dollar AR-15 that was built to a specification far beyond what the SKS was built to. That doesn't mean you can't own a very nice SKS (they do exist) but they will never be the same quality of that high dollar AR (not without a machine shop at your disposal.)

I love my CZ-52, it's fun to shoot, but it is not even in the same league as my Les Baer Custom 1911 Springfield. So while there is nothing wrong with the CZ, there is a difference between them. If, however, my CZ was unreliable it would not remain in my collection. I have had other equally expensive Springfield 1911's that I have gotten rid of because of reliability issues.

The bottom line, if it isn't completely reliable... it doesn't stay. I enjoy C&R guns, but I don't equate them with the best the industry has to offer and I think that's an equally important point that Kevp made.

Mark

a81lp · Feb 20, 2010

all very good points, I say buy what you want. wether it be expensive or reasonably priced. if get what you truly want you will be happy

sandeman · Feb 20, 2010

Kevp said:
I am a quality over quantity guy. It has been 25yrs since I bought my first gun. I've gone through different phases in that time. When I was younger and unable to afford the really expensive stuff, I had SKSs and CZ52s. Some folks are into collecting older military arms and they certainly have their place in a collection of that nature. I wasn't doing that- I thought it was all about quantity which is the way many younger guys think. It is part of learning and growing. You change over time. But even if you keep that philosophy, it is OK if it makes you happy

One thing I've noticed on this site is the tendency of guys buying that kind of stuff to somehow compare it (mine is as good as yours and I only paid $200)- why? That is what leads to the ridiculous arguments and assertions. There are some things that are just what they are, so don't try to make them what they are not. I could have a decent example of nearly every Mauser for what I have into one rifle, but they don't do it for me. I choose high end ARs because I feel they are more reliable, collectible, and likely to appreciate. I could have three Franken ARs for one of those. That is my choice for the given reasons. I want to pass on heirlooms to my kids.

I have a philosophy from my professional life that I carry over into my personal collection and in what I recommend to others. I want thoroughly tested and proven (preferably under the most adverse conditions like combat) weapons and accessories because my life and my family may need to depend on it. It is worth it to me. That is how I approach things. I have been called elitist on this board and that is not the case. I just speak up when questionable claims and assertions are made.

I probably went beyond what the OP was asking, but I have not been posting much on here because of some of the arguments that really stem from what this poster's question really gets to. There is a lot that doesn't get learned because of BS. JMHO.

thanks for this reply.It was heart felt and well presented.We all learn at different
paths.As I get older I find how little I know.I am working on my knowledge base.I Love MD Shooters.

Fustercluck · Feb 20, 2010

I am going to take KevP's points and take them one step further. If you want to collect firearms as an investment, then of course you want to get the best quality you can for the least amount of money and hope it goes up in value. That desire isn't what I am addressing.

I am addressing the shooter that wants firearms for their intended use, whatever that may be. If you find yourself looking for the best equipment in life, whether it is a car, a stereo, a bicycle, HVAC, then you will never be happy settling for anything other than "top shelf" firearms. My advice to you would be to save up for a few really nice firearms and buy those, knowing that there is no better firearm available. This group of shooters are the ones that buy Wilson Combat Supergrades, even though they function no better than a standard Wilson Combat 1911. They just want the best, even if it is no more reliable or accurate than a standard model.

Other people buy firearms that are "good enough", meaning they might not be pretty or particularly high quality, but they get the job done. These people will buy a Remington 870 or Mossberg for hunting birds and deer. Not pretty, but they are reliable and relatively durable.

A third group of shooters will never buy a gun unless it is a good deal or priced below their mental ceiling for what a gun "should cost". Sometimes they end up with a good shooter, but sometimes they end up with a clunker. I have seen this group of shooters at IDPA shoots, cursing their CZ clone for jamming at inopportune moments.

Another group of shooters (where I fall into) want a gun that will work as intended each time the pin is pulled. It doesn't necessarily have to be a pretty gun, but it needs to be utterly reliable. If that means spending 3k on a 1911 or 2k on a semi-auto rifle or shotgun, then so be it. They appreciate a superlatively-designed weapon, never buy something new or trick, opting to wait and see if it will become a durable and trusted weapon, and consider the ergonomics of the weapon carefully. The price of the weapon and its ease of acquisition are secondary concerns. I don't mind waiting several months to acquire a weapon, if I have determined a real need for it (the definition of need certainly open to debate, if you ask my wife).

Every firearm I purchase anymore is carefully thought out for its intended purpose. I have learned the hard way to avoid impetuous purchases. As one of my surgeon mentors once said, "bad judgement comes from lack of experience. Experience comes from previous episodes of bad judgement".

D

joppaj · Feb 20, 2010

I'm a proponent of the "buy once, cry once" theory. For someone relativly new to the hobby (less than 8 years), I've bought and sold a lot of guns. Every one that I sold was to buy the one that I originally wanted but didn't want to wait for. Here's my plan. Pick a quality gun that you want. Save up the cash for it. By the time you've spent a few monthes saving, if you still want it, buy it. I waffled for over 2 years on whether I wanted a .22WMR and when I couldn't get it out of my head I finally bought. My grandchildren will inheret that rifle one day. I just can't get behind the cheap gun theory any more unless you're someone that really wants that particular cheap gun.

MauiWowie · Feb 20, 2010

I totally agree with JoppaJ
As you know most Sigs cost an arm and a leg...
When I first started my Sig Collecting I was buying less expensive ones just to have them...
Well they are all gone now. What I wish I did was buy the ones I wanted. Not necessarily the more expensive ones but the "Exact" ones I wanted and I should have just waited for them. Not waiting cost me more money in the long run.
My next purchase will be a Beretta 868 White Onyx O/U and a Sig P226 X5 (Looking for both used I'll be patient and wait)
both of those will put me in the poor house for years!!!

boss66tcode · Feb 20, 2010

alucard0822 said:
It would depend on your interests, budget, and needs.

The majority of gun owners have 3 or less, and if you're an occasional shooter or hunter this is sufficient, and having quality guns would be ideal.

Someone into action sports like sporting clays or action pistol may be able to get by with only 1 or 2, and that pistol may be extremely expensive to stay competitive. However if it is well made, and lasts there is no reason to get another gun outside of having a backup gun in case the primary gun goes in for repair, or wears out, this also simplifies things like ammo selection and spare parts, it's more about the sport than the gun.

On the other end of the spectrum are collectors, a person may have 20 different mosin or mauser rifles manufactured from several arsenals, different variants, and different countries, they all do a similar thing, and more than likely few out of the colection would be fired, add a dozen other WWII era rifles, perhaps a dozen SKSs from different countries, and you can end up with dozens of rifles that are relatively inexpensive, but represent a collection the owner can be proud of.

I fall somewhere in the middle, I have a couple really nice guns I use for competition or defense, and a lot of simple low cost guns that interst me in one way or another. I am a fan of guns themselves, their engineering, their various mechanisms and style, and tend to shoot, and compete or collect as a byproduct of that, I work on all of them, and have spent a good deal of time and money mdifying them to suit my needs. Now, working on them has evolved into it's own hobby in addition to collecting and shooting. There are some guns I own simply because the caliber it fires interests me(1911 in 460Rowland), others because the operating mechanism is interesting(K31, lever actions), still others because of what they represent and the history behind them(M1 Garand, Enfield no4mkII). When I first got into shooting I wanted "one of each", a double stack 9mm, a single stack 45, 357 wheelgun, Single action revolver, bolt action rifle, AR etc. However I learned some fit me better than others, and I expanded my collection around that style of firearm, most recently guns well suited to concealed carry, as I developed new interests, and saw some guns I bought on a whim sit in the back of the safe, I would sell or trade them to help finance new stuff. I am happy with my modest "collection", it has a couple guns that cost thousands that are an absolute pleasure to shoot, and a few inexpensive plinkers that see a lot of range time, it's all in what you want to achieve, and as long as you love evey gun you get you will be happy with the collection.

Whoops, don't let my other half view this thread - I'd be in BIG trouble.
My theory on this, is try a few out and know exactly what you want before you buy. A good quality used gun, IMHO is many times better than something you compromised for because of budget. Once you get friends with guns, and you all shoot each others stuff, it becomes a lot easier to figure out what you like in a gun and what you don't.

I have no safe queens - I have shot every gun that I own, some more than others, but every one has been shot.

joppaj · Feb 20, 2010

Yeah, I suspect my next one will be a Glock 21SF. Been on my mind for monthes now. By the time I've saved the cash, if it's still front and center than I'll know it's not just because .45's are suddenly cool and I bought it impulsivly.

A word of caution to the original poster about this board. Guns run in cycles around here. Someone will post about thier new gun and suddenly everybody wants one. Two weeks later it'll be something different. Fight the urge to try to keep up with that wave. You'd end up broke and with a really odd collection.

novus collectus · Feb 20, 2010

MikeTF said:
Novus has done better than the stock market with his investments:

K31 is now worth $200 to $400 and is a very accurate .308 equivalent
CZ52 is now worth $250+
CZ82 can still be bought for $230 shipped, but the civilian version sells for $450

JMHO

I forgot to add, my cutaway CZ52 was I think $125 IRRC four years ago and by looking online may be worth well over $300, possibly four or five hundred.

rrrrrrkevin · Feb 20, 2010

is it buy em cheap and stack em deep? I think thats how it goes

that doesnt just go for ammo

novus collectus · Feb 20, 2010

Markp said:
I think Kevp brings up a great point... I don't think that price really matters, what does matter is will the firearm perform when it matters. I won't compare an SKS with a seriously high dollar AR-15 that was built to a specification far beyond what the SKS was built to. That doesn't mean you can't own a very nice SKS (they do exist) but they will never be the same quality of that high dollar AR (not without a machine shop at your disposal.)

I love my CZ-52, it's fun to shoot, but it is not even in the same league as my Les Baer Custom 1911 Springfield. So while there is nothing wrong with the CZ, there is a difference between them. If, however, my CZ was unreliable it would not remain in my collection. I have had other equally expensive Springfield 1911's that I have gotten rid of because of reliability issues.

The bottom line, if it isn't completely reliable... it doesn't stay. I enjoy C&R guns, but I don't equate them with the best the industry has to offer and I think that's an equally important point that Kevp made.

Mark

K31

Jimbob2.0 · Feb 20, 2010

Its funny but I already responsed, but one of the things that has been getting me lately about alot of lower cost guns (granted i have some premium items too) is maintenance. Really when you add it up it takes a significant amount of time to keep them in tip top shape, prevent corrosion etc.

Maybe I just had a backlog but it seems like I am always cleaning something on the kitchen table.

aquaman · Feb 20, 2010

To me this question makes no sense at all. Inexpensive does not mean low quality first of all. And comparing many C&R's to some of the high dollar AR's Kevp and others mentioned make no sense. It comes down to what do you want? If your #1 desire is a new SCAR then save up or if you have the cash buy it. If you want a Finn M39 or a DWM marked WW1 Mauser more than anything right now buy that. If your on this board you will end up with a collection of your tastes whether you intend to or not

, you should prioritize what you want the most and go from there. :thumbsup:

Numidian · Feb 20, 2010

Too many walls of text in this thread, but I'll say this and maybe it's already been said...

Get guns that do the job you want them to do reliably... Then spend the rest of your money on ammo for those guns and train yourself to be proficient with them. 2 or 3 $500 guns that feel like extensions of yourself when you use them is better then any safe full of $1500 rifles gathering dust.

And I'll be the first to admit that I have not followed my own advice, but I am working on changing that lol

Slimjim · Feb 20, 2010

I have both. I really just buy what i like, and what i can afford. Although i do try to limit my calibers.

Splitter · Feb 20, 2010

I like deals. It pretty much doesn't matter what the subject might be, I like a good deal.

I went to a car show today with the wife. The only cars that I would want are drivers which tend to be less expensive than a collector type. The types of cars I like, therefore, tend to be under 25K. I don't think that I would collect cars that I couldn't dirve even if I had all the money in the world. While they are really cool, the question for me is always "why?".

So when it comes to guns I want decent accuracy, great reliability, and a decent price. I just wouldn't want something I couldn't shoot. I also wouldn't want something that I was worried about handling or losing. To me, guns are tools. While I can appreciate the beauty of a tricked out 1911, I will never apprecciate the difference in accuracy because I am still the limiting factor there

.

I appreciate the collectors of the high end items, it's just not for me even if I had Bill Gates type money. Not only do I like shooting my guns, I like looking at them and feeling that little victory of knowing I got a good deal too. I get that same feeling every time I turn on my TV or turn the key to my car.

Does that make me frugal or cheap? lol.

Splitter

HarEngSer · Feb 20, 2010

Splitter said:
I appreciate the collectors of the high end items, it's just not for me even if I had Bill Gates type money. Not only do I like shooting my guns, I like looking at them and feeling that little victory of knowing I got a good deal too. I get that same feeling every time I turn on my TV or turn the key to my car.

Does that make me frugal or cheap? lol.

Splitter

I think that a notion of affordable=crap has taken hold in the thread. If you get a good deal thats one thing. If you say "i want a ,308." then go looking for the junkiest frankenstiened rifle in the tri-state area just because it's the cheapest then I say your gonna get what you get. If it turns out to be the most accurate easy shooting gun you've ever owned then you got lucky and a good deal. If it doesn't hit a barn then guess what you would have been better off buying a quality gun. However if you say "I want a .308" then look into it and find that a ruger is $100 cheaper than a remington and then happen to find a used model that saves you another $100. Then more power to you. You won't feel like you've been jiped and you got what you wanted. And in the end its all about getting what YOU wanted.

alot of inexpensive guns vs. afew quality firearms

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