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SCV/SAR Patriot · Feb 19, 2019

pilot25 said:
I understand that frustration but then I'm guessing you accept that MD is going to confiscate all guns at some point? Or at least a semi-auto ban? It'll run through the court system but eventually they will do it. Without a modicum of opposition what is to stop them at all? They will hope the federal courts rule in their favor. If they don't they will have had 4 or 5 years of a 100% gun ban.

Nope, I don't have to accept crap. I have my plan as I'm sure others have theirs and I'm certainly not going to discuss this on the open forum.

Maybe see you in Annapolis next Monday? I will be there with my wife.

Cheers

gtodave · Feb 19, 2019

I look at the NRA like I look at the US...it ain't perfect, but it's the best option available. It's better to help steer the ship than to sink it.

pilot25 · Feb 19, 2019

SCV/SAR Patriot said:
Nope, I don't have to accept crap.
Cheers

I get that part. I don't think I'm willing to go there though because at that point we are still morally right but aren't exercising that right.

teratos · Feb 19, 2019

SCV/SAR Patriot said:
Nope, I don't have to accept crap. I have my plan as I'm sure others have theirs and I'm certainly not going to discuss this on the open forum.

Maybe see you in Annapolis next Monday? I will be there with my wife.

Cheers

This. See you there.

esqappellate · Feb 20, 2019

j_h_smith said:
I'm not here to argue, but in the past 30 years, what has the NRA done for Maryland firearm owners?

Working to minimize infringements is not what I want from the NRA.

I don't want to argue either, just inform. I will say from personal experience that the Malpasso case is not the only case involving MD. Some real serious money has been involved in other cases. Know what the expert witnesses cost in MSI's HQL suit? 50 hours x $300 per hour. Per witness (there were two). Do we agree with the NRA all the time? Nope. But we do agree way over 80% of the time. Someone who agrees with me that often is a friend and I make it a point to be nice to my friends, even when I disagree with them. And I don't much care what they did 30 years ago under different management.

j_h_smith · Feb 20, 2019

esqappellate said:
I don't want to argue either, just inform. I will say from personal experience that the Malpasso case is not the only case involving MD. Some real serious money has been involved in other cases. Know what the expert witnesses cost in MSI's HQL suit? 50 hours x $300 per hour. Per witness (there were two). Do we agree with the NRA all the time? Nope. But we do agree way over 80% of the time. Someone who agrees with me that often is a friend and I make it a point to be nice to my friends, even when I disagree with them. And I don't much care what they did 30 years ago under different management.

If the NRA would have spent a proportionate amount of money in MD as MSI has done, do you not believe a lot of the cases may have had different outcomes?

I just get tired of hearing the NRA doing so much for other states and we get very little from them.

Sure, I'm just a grunt in the field and I'm not privy to all of the game plans, but it would be nice to see the NRA take the lead or at least a co-leadership roll in our fight in Maryland.

As for what they've done for us in the past, that's all I have to gauge their usefulness. The world is a "What have you done for me lately" kinda place. My friends are my friends because of how they've treated me in the past, not how they'll treat me next week. My friends of my childhood aren't necessarily my friends today, much less tomorrow.

I applaud everything MSI has done for MD residents. As far as I'm concerned, the NRA isn't on the same field as your organization.

If the NRA doesn't want to take the fight to the front lines, then have them give you $100k a year and let them walk away or only be considered sponsors of our fight. I'm sure you could make more use of that money than the NRA.

danb · Feb 20, 2019

When we look at a map, its 100% helps that there are now 14 constitutional carry states because it makes NYC, NJ, and MD look even more like outliers. The Supreme Court likes to deal with outliers. NRA makes gains where they can and we benefit indirectly but sometimes directly. If NRA and VCDL make headway in VA, it helps a lot of members here directly (see the bill on the VA gov desk to force VSP to process NR permits in 90 days). If NRA and local groups like PAFOA make headway in PA, particularly on recognizing NR permits, it benefits people here directly. But getting the 15th constitutional carry state helps too, makes us look like outliers. The whole NYC permit scheme in my opinion is maybe a year from getting the plug pulled, because SCOTUS took NY State Rifle and Pistol. They pick off the most extreme laws, those are the easiest to get agreement. 4th circuit will take that and apply it to MD. Most of us will live to see MD be shall issue, and none of it would be possible without Kavanaugh and Gorsuch.

NRA can only help those who help themselves. We are our own worst enemies, as exhibited by the comments in this thread. Get a pro-gun representative elected in Central Maryland. Then come back with your complaints about the NRA, I will take them more seriously.

esqappellate · Feb 20, 2019

j_h_smith said:
If the NRA would have spent a proportionate amount of money in MD as MSI has done, do you not believe a lot of the cases may have had different outcomes?

I just get tired of hearing the NRA doing so much for other states and we get very little from them.

Sure, I'm just a grunt in the field and I'm not privy to all of the game plans, but it would be nice to see the NRA take the lead or at least a co-leadership roll in our fight in Maryland.

As for what they've done for us in the past, that's all I have to gauge their usefulness. The world is a "What have you done for me lately" kinda place. My friends are my friends because of how they've treated me in the past, not how they'll treat me next week. My friends of my childhood aren't necessarily my friends today, much less tomorrow.

I applaud everything MSI has done for MD residents. As far as I'm concerned, the NRA isn't on the same field as your organization.

If the NRA doesn't want to take the fight to the front lines, then have them give you $100k a year and let them walk away or only be considered sponsors of our fight. I'm sure you could make more use of that money than the NRA.

Heck, MSI could blow through $100K in attorneys' fees and costs in no time at all! This stuff is *really* expensive. And the officers and directors of MSI are all volunteers and don't get a dime in compensation. It's the best deal anywhere. Heck, I (alone) work about 70 hours a week on MSI matters during the legislative crazy session. The Board and other officers put in a lot of hours too. We do it because we are passionate about this stuff. But, you know, we don't need money from the NRA. We need money from Marylanders, the people who are getting screwed in this State by these gun laws. If everyone member of MDShooters donated a mere $20, once a year, we have enough to really be a major litigation player.

danb · Feb 20, 2019

esqappellate said:
If everyone member of MDShooters donated a mere $20, once a year, we have enough to really be a major litigation player.

And every Merrylander who took a Utah CCW class ...

and Merrylander person who took HQL class...

pilot25 · Feb 21, 2019

j_h_smith said:
If the NRA would have spent a proportionate amount of money in MD as MSI has done, do you not believe a lot of the cases may have had different outcomes?

I don't get why the NRA doesn't partner with the local orgs in the states. If the NRA doesn't have the people to deploy all over then just donate money to the local state org. Have conditions that they can run a surprise audit anytime they want to make sure there is no abuse or anything the NRA doesn't want their name to be apart of.

Win-win.

pilot25 · Feb 21, 2019

esqappellate said:
Heck, I (alone) work about 70 hours a week on MSI matters during the legislative crazy session.

Would you give us some insight on what takes up your time during that session or is it legalese difficult to understand stuff? Could inspire people to step in to help.

pilot25 · Feb 21, 2019

danb said:
The whole NYC permit scheme in my opinion is maybe a year from getting the plug pulled, because SCOTUS took NY State Rifle and Pistol.

That remains to be seen. Currently there is effort underway to change the law, legislatively enough, that it won't be able to make it to SCOTUS thereby making NYSRP start from the beginning. NY now has a supermajority in the house, senate, and governor so I guess they can do it.

They know the law is unconstitutional and are going to lose at the supreme level so this is a way around it. Really disgusting but with complete control of the state government they can pull any dirty trick they want.

I'm not sure the particulars of how they can do this but it was discussed on Anthony Colandro's and Cam and Co's podcast the other day.

danb · Feb 21, 2019

pilot25 said:
That remains to be seen. Currently there is effort underway to change the law, legislatively enough, that it won't be able to make it to SCOTUS thereby making NYSRP start from the beginning. NY now has a supermajority in the house, senate, and governor so I guess they can do it.

They know the law is unconstitutional and are going to lose at the supreme level so this is a way around it. Really disgusting but with complete control of the state government they can pull any dirty trick they want.

I'm not sure the particulars of how they can do this but it was discussed on Anthony Colandro's and Cam and Co's podcast the other day.

Yeah, I think you said that before. I will believe it when I see it. The Amazon fiasco showed that the progressives are firmly in charge in NYC and State and will bully everybody. They are like political terrorists who would rather blow stuff up to call attention to their ideology than make deals. There may be some sane people up there but they are not in charge. The progressives probably want to lose at the Supreme Court because they think it will show how "radical" the court is and help them pack the court later on.

esqappellate · Feb 21, 2019

pilot25 said:
Would you give us some insight on what takes up your time during that session or is it legalese difficult to understand stuff? Could inspire people to step in to help.

A lot of it is writing legal briefs in the form of testimony. Other time is spent in the halls of the GA talking to folks. Other time is spent talking to gun clubs at meetings. ANd of course all the driving

esqappellate · Feb 21, 2019

pilot25 said:
I don't get why the NRA doesn't partner with the local orgs in the states. If the NRA doesn't have the people to deploy all over then just donate money to the local state org. Have conditions that they can run a surprise audit anytime they want to make sure there is no abuse or anything the NRA doesn't want their name to be apart of.

Win-win.

The NRA has local orgs in each state. The Maryland Rifle and Pistol Association in Maryland. And they do good stuff, not just on the legal front either.

pilot25 · Feb 21, 2019

esqappellate said:
The NRA has local orgs in each state. The Maryland Rifle and Pistol Association in Maryland. And they do good stuff, not just on the legal front either.

Not to diminish their group I don't believe they do as much as MSI. If they do then the NRA should be using their marketing arm better.

Thanks for your work.

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