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  • bigmanindc

    Active Member
    Nov 3, 2018
    463
    DMV
    Anyone purchased a firearm, specifically a pistol from a gun show? I do know I have to contact Mr. Sykes but other than that whats the experience like.
    Is it worth it?
     

    Ack Ack

    Active Member
    Sep 4, 2013
    274
    DC
    Buying at a gun show (handgun) would be no different than buying from a gun shop. The gun would have to be shipped to Mr Sykes and you would have to pay his transfer fee ($125) and then register the gun upstairs at the registration office. You then bring the registration form back downstairs to Mr Sykes and he escorts you out of the building with the gun (you need to bring a gun case and lock). For a long gun, you fill out the registration paperwork when you buy the gun. Take the paperwork to firearms registration and once it's registered, you go back to the seller and pick up the gun. Don't forget that you need to wait ten days from the date on the receipt to pick up the gun.
     

    bigmanindc

    Active Member
    Nov 3, 2018
    463
    DMV
    Buying at a gun show (handgun) would be no different than buying from a gun shop. The gun would have to be shipped to Mr Sykes and you would have to pay his transfer fee ($125) and then register the gun upstairs at the registration office. You then bring the registration form back downstairs to Mr Sykes and he escorts you out of the building with the gun (you need to bring a gun case and lock). For a long gun, you fill out the registration paperwork when you buy the gun. Take the paperwork to firearms registration and once it's registered, you go back to the seller and pick up the gun. Don't forget that you need to wait ten days from the date on the receipt to pick up the gun.

    Is it true that if you purchase a long gun online you can use any FFL (MD or VA)?
     

    swamplynx

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 28, 2014
    678
    DC
    Is it true that if you purchase a long gun online you can use any FFL (MD or VA)?

    Yes. But pick somewhere convenient, because you’ll have to go twice. One to sign the PD-213 with the FFL and another to pick up the firearm after you have the registration card. It’s annoying that the PD-213 has to be filled out “in the presence” of both parties.
     

    BlueHeeler

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    7,086
    Washington, DC
    Yes. But pick somewhere convenient, because you’ll have to go twice. One to sign the PD-213 with the FFL and another to pick up the firearm after you have the registration card. It’s annoying that the PD-213 has to be filled out “in the presence” of both parties.

    PD-219 ;)
     

    zoopal

    Active Member
    Jun 13, 2013
    232
    Buying at a gun show (handgun) would be no different than buying from a gun shop. The gun would have to be shipped to Mr Sykes and you would have to pay his transfer fee ($125) and then register the gun upstairs at the registration office. You then bring the registration form back downstairs to Mr Sykes and he escorts you out of the building with the gun (you need to bring a gun case and lock). For a long gun, you fill out the registration paperwork when you buy the gun. Take the paperwork to firearms registration and once it's registered, you go back to the seller and pick up the gun. Don't forget that you need to wait ten days from the date on the receipt to pick up the gun.

    $125 transfer fee, That is a rip off, someone should step in and have a better deal than this.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    The Catch-22 is finding a location that is permissible to operate a gun store . Mr Sykes couldn't find one anywhere in DC, that's why he has a desk @ MPD HQ .
     

    SCV/SAR Patriot

    UNRECONSTRUCTED
    Buying at a gun show (handgun) would be no different than buying from a gun shop. The gun would have to be shipped to Mr Sykes and you would have to pay his transfer fee ($125) and then register the gun upstairs at the registration office. You then bring the registration form back downstairs to Mr Sykes and he escorts you out of the building with the gun (you need to bring a gun case and lock). For a long gun, you fill out the registration paperwork when you buy the gun. Take the paperwork to firearms registration and once it's registered, you go back to the seller and pick up the gun. Don't forget that you need to wait ten days from the date on the receipt to pick up the gun.

    $125 transfer fee. YIKES!

    :shocking:
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Yup, it sucks, but it is what it is for now. The big question is what will happen when he retires?
    DC has language in the its code to allow MPD itself to get its own FFL licence and be the FFL in such an eventuality:
    § 7-2504.10. District as federal firearms licensee.
    (a) Whenever there is no active federal firearms licensee in the District of
    Columbia, the Mayor may seek from federal
    authorities a license for the District to act as a federal firearms licensee solely for the benefit of any District resident eligible and seeking to obtain a lawful handgun.
    (b) The Mayor shall delegate the authority under subsection (a) of this section to a subordinate agency.
    (c) The District shall act under the license obtained pursuant to subsection (a) of this section only until such time as there
    is an active federal firearms licensee in the District of Columbia.
    (d) The District may charge a fee to recover the cost of acting as a federal firearms licensee pursuant to subsection (a) of
    this section by charging $125 or its actual costs, whichever is less, for each handgun.
    (e) For the purposes of this section, the term "active federal firearms licensee" means a person or business that has
    applied for and received a federal firearms license pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923 for the purpose of interstate transfer of handguns, and is operating commercially in the District of Columbia

    I bet it would be cheaper if sykes retired since the law says DC as an FFL would be: "charging $125 or its actual costs, whichever is less, for each handgun" and I bet you could get a successful suit based on upper end of national average which is probably closer to $40 to $50.
     

    swamplynx

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 28, 2014
    678
    DC
    DC has language in the its code to allow MPD itself to get its own FFL licence and be the FFL in such an eventuality:


    I bet it would be cheaper if sykes retired since the law says DC as an FFL would be: "charging $125 or its actual costs, whichever is less, for each handgun" and I bet you could get a successful suit based on upper end of national average which is probably closer to $40 to $50.

    At $40-$50 I wouldn't even bother going to VA for long guns. You could do all the reg stuff and pick up the firearm same day (just come 10-days after your internet purchase). One trip.

    I've tried negotiating with Sykes on long guns, but even there, where there is competition with VA and MD FFLs, he won't budge.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    The Catch-22 is finding a location that is permissible to operate a gun store . Mr Sykes couldn't find one anywhere in DC, that's why he has a desk @ MPD HQ .

    There is specific zoning for FFLs to operate. What was his issue? Cost or no one would rent to him?
     

    BlueHeeler

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    7,086
    Washington, DC
    There is specific zoning for FFLs to operate. What was his issue? Cost or no one would rent to him?

    The commercial areas available for an FFL are extremely limited and not economically viable.
    Firearm retail establishments are permitted in a “C-2” Commercial District, provided that no portion of the establishment shall be located within 300 feet of: 1) a residence or Special Purpose District; or 2) a church or other place of worship, public or private school, public library or playground.34

    The $125 really is not that expensive Mr. Sykes is dealing in a low volume transfer business that does not have a retail space to generate revenue.
     

    Abacab

    Member
    Sep 10, 2009
    2,644
    MD
    The commercial areas available for an FFL are extremely limited and not economically viable.


    The $125 really is not that expensive Mr. Sykes is dealing in a low volume transfer business that does not have a retail space to generate revenue.

    That's different from "couldn't find anywhere."

    I asked the question because the space may exist, it just might be cost prohibitive.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Ok , I'm curious . At the time I remember it being reported at the time as " couldn't " . It's a little vague at this point , but somthing along the lines of almost no almost no properties with proper zoning meeting the exclusion criteria, and landlords refusing to rent to a gun store .

    I'm sure we have enough RE pros here who could research the first part, if such a property exists .
     

    swamplynx

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 28, 2014
    678
    DC
    Ok , I'm curious . At the time I remember it being reported at the time as " couldn't " . It's a little vague at this point , but somthing along the lines of almost no almost no properties with proper zoning meeting the exclusion criteria, and landlords refusing to rent to a gun store .

    I'm sure we have enough RE pros here who could research the first part, if such a property exists .

    When you look at those restrictions, I think it is nearly impossible, but you are probably right there is certainly somewhere in the city that would be ok.

    If I remember the history post Heller correctly, Sykes had shut down his office off Pennsylvania in Anacostia and DC was on the verge of being sued again by SAF for the zoning ordinance. Rather than deal with another slam dunk lawsuit, they gave Sykes his office at 300 Indiana for something like 200 bucks a month of rent. See, we do have an FFL!

    At that point guessing SAF and others had bigger fish to fry, and didn’t bother suing the City, not to mention the general lack of enthusiasm of (legal) DC gun owners, there is little financial incentive for a commercial entity to fund such a lawsuit. I can’t remember the name of the similar case in Alameda, CA that the 9CA hosed us on, but I still think the DC ordinance would be easy pickings.

    That being said, efforts are still better spent to end the ban on interstate handgun purchases and ******** registration schemes like DC which disincentivise out of state FFLs from even wanting to deal with DC residents. Get rid of those two things and the DC gov can zone away, you just shop somewhere else.
     

    A1Uni

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2012
    4,842
    Charles Sykes is a really nice guy. He does not sell any guns; he just does transfers.

    We deal with him several time a month, as we sell to LOTS of DC residents.

    Sad fact, it is easier to get a handgun in DC that it is in MD now, and they have a bigger approved list as they accept MD Roster and one other state, which one escapes me.

    This is the DC paperwork, one page.


    aVCE75K.jpg
     

    swamplynx

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 28, 2014
    678
    DC
    Mr. Sykes is indeed very nice, and I love seeing him be patient with noobs, guiding them through the process, despite DC's best efforts to dissuade ownership. But kindness does not buy a $125 transfer fee, and I'd love to have a cheaper option for pistols.

    It is funny that DC does indeed have a better environment for handgun ownership than MD in general + shall issue CCW (not by their choosing). I think as far as pistols, threaded barrels may be the only area where MD has a leg up on the District. Who'd of thought, in a place that 18 years ago outright banned handgun ownership.

    Long-guns are a whole other story, where MD is at least still semi-free for the time being.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Charles Sykes is a really nice guy. He does not sell any guns; he just does transfers.

    We deal with him several time a month, as we sell to LOTS of DC residents.

    Sykes is a nice guy. Yes it is low volume. And sure he has to walk new buyers though. But I bet his civil suit risk though is less than most FFLs since he knows for a fact you are shuttling between his office and the MPD which is giving you a fingerprint based check before taking possession.

    You should also consider that his DC FFL fee structure is actually harmful to Maryland and Virginia bricks and mortar LGSs, since with that $125 fee it makes the most sense for DC residents to go on gunsamerca, gunbroker, buds, etc., and shop for lowest possible price.

    But you really seethe problem with the $125 fee structure combined with DC laws, is if you want to move around a couple of guns in an immediate family that already owns those guns and already has paid the $125 in the first place.

    Example:
    if I have a P365 for me, and .22 bearcat my daughter shoots, both registered in my name. And my wife has a g43 and a g19 she doesn't really like and she prefers the 365, and our schedules for the upcoming year makes it more conducive for her to taking my daughter to the range this year: to shift my two to her, and her two to me, in my own household will cost $500 in FFL fees.

    If I have already paid sykes $500 in FFL fees for those guns, it is not reasonable to be charged a full $500 again and, not negotiate some reasonable middle ground or even small discount.

    In that circumstance if you compare to maryland or Virginia, those $1,700 guns would cost say $160 in FFL total. In DC this is $1,000 in FFL fees.


    Sad fact, it is easier to get a handgun in DC that it is in MD now, and they have a bigger approved list as they accept MD Roster and one other state, which one escapes me

    DC uses California, Mass and Maryland. It only has to be on one. California is totally moot point at the movement since it is so restrictive re microstamping*. Massachusetts** roster has some utility since a handful of guns appear the roster a bit before Maryland, for example some guns made in Massachussets such as M&P.*** .But in 99% of the cases the Maryland roster is the broadest by far.


    * There is always a background danger of DC switching to California roster only. it would likely trigger Heller IV but it would suck.
    ** Massachusetts roster is a much broader list than "Massachusetts compliant." DC owners do not need to have the Massachusetts complaint version of a gun, just a model on their roster. Many guns are on the Massachusetts roster (ok for DC residents) that are not "Massachusetts compliant."
    ***Added benefit of Maryland roster system over Mass., is you can submit a gun yourself and the taxpayer pays the testing as far as I know. In Massachusetts you would need to pay the testing company (~$1,500 last time I looked).
     

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