Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

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  • peoples1234

    Active Member
    Mar 27, 2013
    100
    Andy and Engage are awesome, and his reasoning is perfect.

    If anything, I am disappointed that he changed his mind. The sooner that the NJ law goes into effect, the sooner it can be challenged.
     

    SWO Daddy

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,468
    I really want to examine one. I bet it's easy.

    I don't think so judging by the patent description...but it sure looks easy to fail.

    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    The technical solution is characterized in that the gun lock/gun locks each have an electric or electronic sensor device correlated therewith for recognizing whether the hammer of the correlated gun lock is cocked, and/or the cartridge/cartridges each have correlated therewith an electric or electronic sensor device for recognizing whether a cartridge is inserted into the cartridge chamber, and the sensor device or devices have correlated therewith at least one light that illuminates when the hammer of the gun lock is cocked and/or when a cartridge is inserted in the cartridge chamber.

    Accordingly, a handgun, in particular a hunting weapon with improved visual control is provided in regard to whether the weapon is ready to be fired or not. The principal idea of the invention resides in that the gun lock has correlated therewith an electric or electronic sensor device. This sensor device can also be a purely mechanically operating part, for example, a switch or push button. It is decisive that subsequently an electric or electronic processing is performed leading to an electrically operated light being actuated. As soon as the hammer of the gun lock has been cocked, a correlated light illuminates. When at this time a cartridge is in the cartridge chamber, the weapon is ready to be fired and a shot could go off. In this basic version of the invention, the light illuminates even when the hammer has been cocked but there is no cartridge in the cartridge chamber so that even with the gun lock cocked there is no risk that a shot could go off. The sensor device that is correlated with the hammer can assume two different positions. On the one hand, the sensor device can be in the area of the hammer when it is cocked. On the other hand, the sensor device can also be in such position when the hammer is not cocked. With a corresponding processing electronic unit the appropriate signals are then processed. Alternative to (or also in addition to) the sensor device correlated with the gun lock, the respective cartridge chamber can have correlated therewith a sensor device. This means that the light illuminates when a cartridge is located in the cartridge chamber. This creates a potential risk in particular when the gun lock is cocked. Only when no cartridge is in the cartridge chamber, there is no risk, not even for a cocked gun lock. The advantage in using a light resides in that, as a result of its illumination power, it is readily noticed and, in particular, can also be seen at a distance by a third party. Preferably, a red light is used because in case of hunting weapons this color cannot be seen by animals. As a whole, a reliably operating visual control is provided that increases the safety of handguns, in particular hunting weapons as well as sporting guns at shooting events. In this connection, an electronic visual safety system with its illumination device visually indicates the loading state and fully ready state. Should the visual electronic safety device be inoperative because of lack of power, the unit can be bridged, for example, by means of a manual slide.

    A preferred embodiment proposes that the gun lock/gun locks each have an electric or electronic sensor device correlated therewith for recognizing whether the hammer of the respective gun lock is cocked, and the cartridge/cartridges each have an electric or electronic sensor device for recognizing whether a cartridge is in the cartridge chamber, wherein the light only provides a signal when a cartridge is in the cartridge chamber and when the hammer of the gun lock is cocked. The principal idea resides in that the indicator device is active and the light illuminates as soon as a cartridge is located in the cartridge chamber and at the same time the gun lock is cocked. The visual indicator device remains active until all gun locks are fired or uncocked. When all gun locks are fired or uncocked and the casing is still in the chamber, the indicator is inactive. The cocked gun locks thus provide a primary safety mechanism that ensures activation of the safety system while the casing in the cartridge chamber provides a secondary function.

    The sensor device can be formed by very different elements, for example, by mechanical contacts or switches, by photocells, or magnets.

    The sensor device for the hammer is arranged between the housing of the handgun and the hammer.

    The sensor device for the cartridge is preferably arranged at the breech face of the chamber. This means that the sensor device is arranged at a location close to the hammer so that the contact sensing is provided at the breech face of the cartridge chamber in the area of the head of the casing of the cartridge.

    All sensor devices have a common visual indicator. When the light is illuminated, it is apparent that the weapon is ready to be fired.

    An alternative is proposed in that all sensor devices have their own light, respectively. In this way it is possible to recognized whether a cartridge is in the barrel. Moreover, it can be recognized wether the gun lock is cocked. Preferably, in this embodiment variant also a superordinate general light is provided that illuminates when the weapon is basically ready to be fired. For example, it can be possible that all barrels have cartridges inserted (so that all corresponding lights are illuminated) but that the gun locks are not cocked so that there is no readiness to fire.

    The light is an LED or a CET. Using CETs in comparison to LEDs has the advantage that they require a lot less power.

    Preferably, the light is provided on the ridge of the stock of the handgun. This has the advantage that the light is in the immediate visual field of the shooter and therefore cannot be overlooked.

    A further embodiment proposes that the hammer has a mechanical locking device that secures the hammer in the uncocked position. In this way, there is the possibility that the gun lock cannot be cocked or can be cocked only after the locking device has been released.

    This mechanical locking device preferably is electrically operated by means of a battery.

    In this connection, the locking device is in the locked position when in a currentless state. This means that without battery, i.e., when no electric power is supplied, the weapon is not ready to be fired.

    A further embodiment proposes that the corresponding electrical power supply can be sealed. When the battery compartment without battery being installed is sealed, there is no possibility to convert the weapon into the ready-to-fire state because the locking device blocks cocking of the gun lock. This battery compartment is preferably arranged in the stock or grip. In this state, in which no battery is within the battery compartment, the manual locking or unlocking action of the gun lock cannot be actuated so that the gun lock cannot be cocked in any way. When however in the battery compartment a battery is installed, the manual locking or unlocking action of the gun lock can be actuated in any case whether the battery is full or empty.

    http://patents.justia.com/patent/7908779
     

    webb297

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 29, 2010
    2,800
    Bowie
    The people of NJ, and the law makers sold them out, just like our GA did here.

    You don't think that somebody isn't going to sell this thing at some point? Even if they don't, the NJ GA can just amend the law from 1 unit delivered to FFL anywhere in USA, to 1 commercially available unit w/ proof of function anywhere in the USA and poof, three year rule. Do you think that their legislature would let the simple fact that it isn't being sold right now even though it exists stop them? This technology is here to stay (even if it sucks), and the sooner NJ (and we in MD) deal with it (through GREAT court case they can have if their legislature decide to enforce) the better.

    The problem is run away unchecked anti-gun legislatures, they are the problem here. The Gun isn't the problem. The Vendor isn't the problem. The people who what a "safer" firearm are not the problem. Lets be clear here though, I don't think RFID tech is going to make anything safer, in fact in defense situations quite the opposite, but I am not the one who would be buying this thing - A company had an idea for a product, produced that product and is now legally offering it for sale. Free Market. People should be able to decide if they want to buy it. The Smart Technology isn't a nefarious idea on its own, its the forced implementation of it by idiot lawmakers that is the problem. We need to deal with the problem. So does NJ.


    I don't know how I feel about Engage doing this, but I do know that I now despise the NJ Legislature almost as much as I do ours, but I think the almost is just because I know ours better. I believe that the principle are the same in this as they are for any other issue related to the tool that is the firearm. Restrictions on the ownership of firearms are the fault of a runaway legislature (not reigned in buy its constituents), and a failed or not yet implemented court system.

    Don't blame the Gun. Don't blame the vendor. Blame the people who are assaulting your rights. In this case the NJ GA is using law to assault the 2A, just like a criminal uses a firearm to assault a victim. The firearm is not the problem, the criminal is.
     

    Truthlesshero81

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2011
    607
    I love how when "one of our own" breaks ranks we send then death threats, but for SB281 where were they? And thus the ants ate the cow, one bite at a time...
     

    csanc123

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    4,155
    Montgomery County
    Of all the things that have occurred in the 2A space for the past few years I'm actually sickened by some of the absolute hate that has been spewed the past 24 hours. Andy and the Engage crew have done more than MOST internet warriors have done in their lifetime to further the 2A cause (at least in MD). It's absolutely disheartening to witness the response of the 2A community...the same community that is giving immense fodder to the anti gun establishment through their threats and inappropriate responses.

    No wonder we are considered "gun nuts".
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    I have no doubt that the people who threatened Andy were gun owners. People often say "we are all on the same side". No we are not. Only a complete idiot who hasn't been around gun people would say such a moronic thing.

    Andy is seeing the real side of a section of gun owners.

    We have people in our community that would prefer to see people arrested instead of getting clarification from L.E. about gun laws, try to acquire guns that are banned and try and convince others its no big deal, threaten to harm people, threaten to sue people, and so on.

    Not that it matters a bit, but I still stand behind Andy and Engage.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    It seems to me, from that code section, NJ's clock starts tolling whenever a Manufacturer delivered the firearm to an FFL (wholesale or retail). I would say that has already occurred, and Engage had nothing to do with that. Oak Tree stated they had the gun for over a year before they got backlash in March.

    I reread the statute, you are right and I stand corrected. It appears that the only element missing now is NJ officially noticing that that trigger event occurred. You can bet the farm that, had the high school kid in Waseca, Minnesota not been stopped, we would have witnessed the event to trigger the next round of ban legislation. Sadly, it's only a matter of time, and hope that it doesn't happen is not a strategy.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    The 4 pound Omega Armory AR15 looks interesting.

    Someone had to get extremely extreme on that thing.

    It's hard to remove pounds of weight from aluminum and plastic.
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    Wow. I blink and there are 15 pages to wade through. Anyone care to summarize and save me the hassle?

    I think people are missing the real story here anyway, and that is that Andy looks silly without a beard.
     

    Rattlesnake46319

    Curmidget
    Apr 1, 2008
    11,032
    Jefferson County, MO
    I want someone to buy one so they can post a youtube video of how to take it apart and bypass the RFID lock.

    Was thinking this as I went through the thread. Be nice to have the extra coin to do exactly that. Unfortunately, I suspect the price tag was inflated to prevent it. I could be wrong, just having a tinfoil moment.

    OTOH, firearm owners are wont to toss out money on a whim.
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    I have no doubt that the people who threatened Andy were gun owners. People often say "we are all on the same side". No we are not. Only a complete idiot who hasn't been around gun people would say such a moronic thing.

    Andy is seeing the real side of a section of gun owners.

    We have people in our community that would prefer to see people arrested instead of getting clarification from L.E. about gun laws, try to acquire guns that are banned and try and convince others its no big deal, threaten to harm people, threaten to sue people, and so on.

    Not that it matters a bit, but I still stand behind Andy and Engage.

    WMAL just mentioned this situation. Threatening the man's livelyhood, or his family, was WAY out of line.

    I've only dealt with Engage once, but that experience was one worth repeating, even if I do find his dog repulsive.:P

    I don't agree with the flak that he's catching. It seems to be coming from a feeling that he sold us out. I'm not ready put that tin foil hat on yet. I have a hard time believing that the same man who spent a half hour trying to persuade me to make an SBR out of my Arsenal AK would have such nefarious motives.
     

    Dan_G

    Active Member
    Feb 20, 2013
    861
    Frederick ,MD
    My great senator, Weinberg, wrote a letter to the NJ AG to activate the law when the Oak Tree place said they stocked it. The clock may have started and Engage has nothing to do with it.
     

    pilotguy

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    1,385
    Woodstock, MD
    I disagree with his initial decision to sell the gun mostly from the standpoint that as a Maryland resident, I am tired of retailers in other states telling me "too bad--your legislature made it difficult and so I'm not selling to you even though it is legal to." We really need to be a unified 2A community throughout every state, helping our brothers and sisters where we can. Especially now when the anti tactic is to work state by state to carve us up.

    But I have to say I disagree more with threatening anyone over a retail business, let alone his family or pets. I can understand someone getting upset but if you disagree with EA's stance it should be via a discussion. And I commend Andy for telling people they can call him up and speak to him about it. I believe he knew the sh!7 storm that would erupt on the phone if he did that and decided to do so knowingly in order to explain his initial decision. It has to be the busiest phone in the country right now.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I've met Andy, in the Annapolis BS factory testifying and standing with us, He has always been front and center defending our rights, and as such has earned my trust and the benefit of the doubt from me. At first I wasn't thrilled about them carrying it, but he is right, it could bring some people to gun ownership that otherwise wouldn't, and it does offer a choice that some wouldn't have otherwise. It's a free market, if people like it, then they buy it, if they don't they won't, it's hypocritical for us to seek a gun ban and take that choice away from people. A few people bring up microstamping as a comparison, there is a big difference in that the company holding the patent for microstamping actively petitioned lawmakers to pass a law requiring it in order to gain a 100% market share on a required, but otherwise useless invention. So far the company with the RFID lockout tech hasn't done this, appears at least they are competing on the merits of their invention, as it should be. NJ passed a bad law a decade ago, it's a BS law, and it's up to the residents there to fight it, if the politicians wanted, they could have "activated" it years ago, probably didn't being they know it's an empty threat that will be overturned with the first court case.

    Perhaps the biggest story is the sniveling cowards threatening Andy, they are doing more damage to our image than Engage ever could selling a new technology. That is complete BS, I guess they think gun banning politicians won't push their agendas if nobody rocks the boat, that isn't the case, they proved last year they will push, whatever they want when ever they feel like it. They look at what risk it poses to re-election, then have a dog and pony show to make people think they matter, and we get a chance to speak our minds for a bit before they do what they already planed. Instead of eating our own for fear a person might invoke the wrath of the gods for asking a question or selling a product, stand up like few of us ever do, and direct the anger where it is deserved, the politicians. They are the ones that should be terrified of the public marching with torches and pitchforks if they dare pass laws infringing on our rights.
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    My issue is not the shops free choice to sell a product but they are in a way waiving the "its here flag" to legislators. You are all correct when you say it is the legislators that are causing the problems however when we blatantly waive this in front of them we are giving them a free shot at us.

    They can now say, its here and right down the street so we can mandate it. When no one has the product you can argue you are making a ban on the product.

    CA was in arms because of the already strict gun laws, the dealer was saying hey here you go, you can make it stricter.

    I tell you right now IMO I believe what Engage just did will be the spark that forced this next law.

    I already had a liberal staff member talk to me yesterday about this saying its here cant wait to see them implemented.

    If there was a "demand" for it the customer could have called, asked, and Engage could have ordered it for them.

    I DO NOT like this decision they made and I fear the outcome.


    For the record those people threatening death threats, etc...they should be in jail.
     

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