M1 garand sights
- Thread starter ras_oscar
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Rabu Rabu
Operatoroperatoroperator
Looking down the sight on the windage side there should be a small flat head screw. Not the big button head, the small shaft with a cut out in the center of the knob. Loosen it, and you should feel a clunk in the sight, it's stepped on increments . Keep loosening it until you have free but tight adjustment. You might want to tighten that little guy back down once you zero.
I had assumed that since windage was provided on the sight group (as opposed to shipping preset at the factory) that it was an adjustment available to each soldier in the field. A War department video I watched on you tube showing the process of zeroing the rifle confirms this. It talks about accounting for differences in each rifle, in each soldier and in the environment due to wind. A previous reply mentioned the sights might have lock bars in them. Your reply mentions I might want to lock it back down after zeroing. Is it *usual* to adjust for windage in the field, or only elevation due to range?
I have in the past handled several M14s, which is virtually the same receiver and sight group. All the windage and elevation knobs operated freely. They were de-milled drill rifles, but I doubt any adjustments would have been bothered with on the sight group during de-milling.
TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
There were three different rear sights on M1 rifles. Each was loosened and tightened slightly different. You need to identify which you have but the second and third are by far the most common. The second type used a lockbar and the third (and first if I'm not mistaken) had a slot you used a sight tool or screwdriver to loosen and tighten.
dist1646
Ultimate Member
The windage knob has a slotted piece in the center. Take an appropriate sized screw driver and loosen it one click ( you will be able to feel it), then try working the sight knobs again. That slotted piece is threaded on the inside for the end of the elevation pinion. It is most likely over tightened.
If you have the lock bar type sight, you will have to loosen the bar by unscrewing it and then make sight adjustments. Retighten the bar when finished.
If you have the lock bar type sight, you will have to loosen the bar by unscrewing it and then make sight adjustments. Retighten the bar when finished.
If you push in on the elevation knob, that is press hard to the right, it will loosen the windage knob slightly, making it easier to adjust while you hold the elevation knob. Push hard: you're compressing a spring.
Lockbar sights were a wartime fix for the original flush nut design, which tended to loosen. Sights were upgraded with improved, non lock bar sights after the war. These are most common. Lock bar sights are collectable, and sell at a premium. Original flush nut sights are very collectable!
Soldiers were trained in rifle marksmanship, including windage adjustment.
M14 sights were virtually identicle to the post war Garand sights, except graduated in meters instead of yards.
M16A2 sights, as,well as M4 carbine sights continue the American tradition of providing excellent fully adjustable iron sights to our servicemen, a tradition that goes back to the Buffington sights on the later Trapdoor Springfields.
Lockbar sights were a wartime fix for the original flush nut design, which tended to loosen. Sights were upgraded with improved, non lock bar sights after the war. These are most common. Lock bar sights are collectable, and sell at a premium. Original flush nut sights are very collectable!
Soldiers were trained in rifle marksmanship, including windage adjustment.
M14 sights were virtually identicle to the post war Garand sights, except graduated in meters instead of yards.
M16A2 sights, as,well as M4 carbine sights continue the American tradition of providing excellent fully adjustable iron sights to our servicemen, a tradition that goes back to the Buffington sights on the later Trapdoor Springfields.
I just watched a youtube video on removing and installing the sights. I have a better understanding of what you mean by clicks. I do not have a lock bar on the windage knob. I'll loosen the windage screw a click and see if that helps. (I prefer not to wrench on things until I understand what I'm doing).
For what its worth, the receiver was manufactured by International Harvester. The serial number starts at 45, which my research indicates was manufactured at the end of the Korean war. Since that's late in production, and since I don't have a lock bar, I assume its the third (and final?) design.
For what its worth, the receiver was manufactured by International Harvester. The serial number starts at 45, which my research indicates was manufactured at the end of the Korean war. Since that's late in production, and since I don't have a lock bar, I assume its the third (and final?) design.
TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
Yes...that would be the third design rear sight. The lock bar design was superseded by it during or shortly after WWII, even though many, many M1s never received the upgrade.
Another M1 question not worth starting a separate thread: When I manually load an en block clip, does it matter whether the top round is staggered to the left or the right? My sense is no, since the bolt needs to be able to feed both banks into the chamber.
TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
It doesn't matter which way the rounds are loaded. There was what was referred to as the "Seventh Round Stoppage" in very early production M1's but it was rectified. It occurred when the rounds were loaded with the top cartridge to the left. It turned out the production people at Springfield Armory made a small change to John Garand's design specs on a feed rib which created the problem. They returned to his original design and no more problem...existing rifles had the rib built up with weld to bring it back to spec. Still...most people are taught to load with the top round to the right.
I've read of similar issues if used with non-GI en bloc clips...particularly French made clips. Stick with GI clips and you should have no problems.
I've read of similar issues if used with non-GI en bloc clips...particularly French made clips. Stick with GI clips and you should have no problems.
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
When the the front of the reciever was bored the cutter inadvertently hit the leading edge of the follower guide slot.
dist1646
Ultimate Member
I know it used to matter in the early Garands. The issue was corrected in later M1's. I always put the top round on the left side. If you put the top round on the right, you can inadvertently catch your fingernail on the edge of the clip when pushing it into place. Been there, done that, ouch!
Doco Overboard
Ultimate Member
You can see a 7th round mod in this picture. The area that would get nicked would be built up with a weld and then reworked.
dist1646
Ultimate Member
That is an excellent pic! Thanks.
Update: backed the windage side spindle screw off a bit and now both windage and elevation move with proper resistance. Took it out to the range with 6 clips of M2 ball ammo. The only issue I had was the second clip, the bolt stuck after stripping the first round 1/2" off the block. Pushed the round back and tried again. Same result. Then I remembered the WW2 training videos showing instructors bumping the handle. Winner. Other than occasionally bumping the handle on the first round, the gun ran flawlessly. I even had the opportunity to loose load a few rounds into an empty clip in the receiver. Windage required zero adjust adjustment from static. Elevation had to come down to 7 clicks at 50 yards. The gun is more accurate than I am. I need to stretch out to 100 yards next trip and rock on. Got it home, finally got the wood stock off, cleaned and greased the parts I could get to without removing the op rod. ( that's the next video to watch). My reloading dies are being delivered tomorrow. Time to load up a ladder 
dist1646
Ultimate Member
Magnumite
Ultimate Member
My experience as well. My Garand would hold 3” with ball ammo at 100 yards with me shooting it. When I was getting credible with it it would hold 2 1/2” with occasional sub 2” groups. That was then...eyes are messing with me now plus I don’t shoot it much any more..
TheOriginalMexicanBob
Ultimate Member
During WWII the government relaxed the accuracy specs on ammunition to increase production, so accuracy of any average rifle would certainly be less than with modern ammunition. All that being said, most any M1 in decent condition is still capable of very good accuracy at worst and better than most can hold at best using modern milspec M2. Use match grade ammunition you'll have a near-tack driver by a good shooter. A little tuning and matching of parts plus match sights and an M1 will do anything you can reasonably ask of it...it will hold its own amongst many high grade rifles made today.
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