12 Gauge Home Defense Video Field Test: Effects On Walls and Simulated Bodies

OLM-Medic said:

why even use birdshot? all you have to do is rack the shotgun and they will run.

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OLM-Medic said:

why even use birdshot? all you have to do is rack the shotgun and they will run.

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Tungsten said:

Damnit Medic, that is not ALL you have to do. You also need to blindly fire two times out the window ...

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cstone said:

dupe

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Blaster229 said:

I have no bird shot experience because BIRD SHOT is not an appropriate shot for self defense. Neither is a shotgun for inside home defense.
I've never used a crossbow either but can say that is not feasible as well. It could work, but not practical.

Again. Why use hollow point ammunition when glaser safety slugs are safer? Because it is not as EFFECTIVE.

Do you have any training at all? Because when it comes to saving your life or that of a loved one in your home, accuracy is of the utmost.

And you assume that you are going to make a perfect first full hit with that birdshot. If you hit an arm or a leg, that person is still coming and I doubt at self defense distance you're not racking that slide fast enough to get another shot.

If you hunker down in your bedroom waiting for a bad guy to enter (which is preferable in a house situation) and have a shotgun to use when he comes through that beautiful fatal funnel, that's fine. Use 00 buck.

I know your type. You are that guy in a class that always says "But we used to do it this way" throughout the day.

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jcutonilli said:

I think you are mixing each other up. I typically try and understand why things are they way they are so that the relevant facts can be properly applied to different situations.

I keep trying to understand why you don't want to explain your reasoning. Is it because you don't really know why and are simply falling back on "but we used to do it this way"? Other people are pointing out all the experience you have where you "used to do it this way". That is not helpful to understand if your reasoning applies to my or other people's situation.

Have you seen the Joerg Sprave "Slingshot Channel" Channel? https://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave He developed a magazine fed bow/crossbow that may make it more practical. Different circumstances may change what is practical and what is not.

I can't comment on Glaser slugs because the video we are talking about does not use them. A cursory review of what they are indicates they use significantly smaller bird shot in significantly smaller quantities. Neither the video or I are claiming any size bird shot in any amount are effective. Nor is anyone suggesting to use ineffective rounds for self defense. What we are trying to figure out is how relevant the video is and under what circumstances it may not be.

Are you saying that untrained or little trained individuals should not try and defend themselves?

The accuracy or more specifically the lack of accuracy is what I am concerned about. I am not assuming a perfect hit. I am assuming that I will miss and may hit someone else. That is based not just on my accuracy but those of others such as the Dallas PD.

Any non fatal hit may or may not cause an attacker to stop advancing. Most handgun uses do not result in a fatality. See https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power The statistics I have seen suggest simply displaying a gun will resolve most situations. The data above indicates most situations, where you need to fire, are resolved in one to two rounds.

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Blaster229 said:

Have a good day

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jcutonilli said:

So you really don't know why you should not use a shotgun for home defense.

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Doco Overboard said:

I do that jump shooting deer sometimes. Yes I know not an interior home wall scenario but you would be surprised how much a little vegetation like light honeysuckle brush or phragmites will slow or stop bird or buck shot that can result in a cripple or clean miss to a vital area.

A slug will bust through that mess by not entirely flattening out and keep you from wading a ditch or gut if that M**^_ER gets back up.
Even if you made two bad hits a second one with a slug thats poorly placed will make them lay down and kick like a dog that wants its belly rubbed.

Ill let the experts talk about shooting people in a house. I don't want to or ever have do that. #6 that's well placed on a non startled deer will flatten them to about 20-25 yards.

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Blaster229 said:

I think I'll take the breaching rounds out of my Mossberg and put some #8 in there just in case a quail tries to break in. I think they are planning something, because a bird tried flying through the window the other day.

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Blaster229 said:

Honestly dude, You're not worth the bantering back and forth.

Get some training and experience instead of some "stats" and pie charts, then maybe we can discuss tactics.

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hogarth said:

You missed this place, didn't ya?

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outrider58 said:

I was on my way to my evening stand one afternoon. As I walked down a clearcut pipeline right of way, I noticed a couple deer moving in my direction just a couple yards inside the woods. The only thing between me and the lead deer was 15 yards and a thin vale of bittersweet. Easy penetration for a Brenneke 3" magnum slug, right? Wrong! Five slugs out at point blank and the deer just stood there...laughing, I think. Once the shock wore off and I began to reload, the deer, unharmed, walked off. Only thing that got hurt that day was my pride. Lol

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Doco Overboard said:

Been there done that and missed plenty! Thats why I use 12 pellet buck that's aimed even when in close. A slug will get you to where you need to be if you miss make a bad hit or when they run out some.

My experience is you need three or more pellets-two of which need to be in the vitals to kill deer good with them. One in the head one in the lungs maybe another near the heart.
The biggest thing of all is being able to hit what your shooting at and get a bunch of pellets in it. You can have the best fitting gear in the world but if you cant shoulder, put eyes on then squeeze right its easy to miss when your moving or your feet aint right when all that's going on and your shooting at something that's moving.

The follow up from something like a 12 gauge is even harder to become disciplined with. Everybody knows they will rattle your teeth belt yourself in the eye, thumb your nose and things like that. You need to be able to overcome that shock from recoil and face slap, noise and all that for a decent follow up.

I guess that why they make the reduced recoil stuff these days. If it wont go through a metal soup can(birdshot-slugs whatever- at 25-30 yards it's not worth a damn to begin with.

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Doco Overboard said:

View attachment 280980

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