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  • andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    So after having my first ar15 for about a month now and shooting about 1200 rounds though it I have made a few adjustments to make it my own. I know i did not by the best one out there. But that is a question of mine too. What is the best AR money can buy? That I could buy in MD! That part is important. Lol.
    But more importantly what I am afraid to ask since I am a noob. The one thing that is bugging me about this rifle is the trigger..... Am I aloud to upgrade it. I read a little but about the new law that went into effect on the 1st of October, and I am thinking I can not. So I was looking for some input.
     

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    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    So after having my first ar15 for about a month now and shooting about 1200 rounds though it I have made a few adjustments to make it my own. I know i did not by the best one out there. But that is a question of mine too. What is the best AR money can buy? That I could buy in MD! That part is important. Lol.
    But more importantly what I am afraid to ask since I am a noob. The one thing that is bugging me about this rifle is the trigger..... Am I aloud to upgrade it. I read a little but about the new law that went into effect on the 1st of October, and I am thinking I can not. So I was looking for some input.

    What is the best MD compliant AR you can buy? That is a subjective question that can only be answered by the owner. What do you want it to do, what weight are you willing to accept, what kind of precision are you looking for, etc... Answer those questions and you will know what the best AR for you will be. Personally, just build one, so you can have what you want on it right out of the gate.

    You can buy an aftermarket trigger and install it. What kind of trigger do you want and what is your intended application for the AR? If it is a HD rifle, I'd recommend the ALG QMS or ACT trigger, for a single stage trigger. If you want a 2 stage for hunting or precision shooting, get a Geisselle G2S or SSA-E.
     

    KRC

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2018
    615
    Cecil County MD
    As stated above, "best" is subjective. (Except mine is best.)
    What do you want the rifle to be "best" at?

    For an excellent trigger at a reasonable price, consider Rock River Arms Two Stage Match Trigger currently on sale for $99.60. They have several other excellent triggers as well, including the two-stage Varmint Trigger with a 3.5# pull for $120.

    https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1339

    The RRA 2-stage triggers can be further lightened with the installation of a JP Power Reduced Power Spring set, and even lightened from this pull weight by cutting off a coil from the disconnector spring included in the JP kit.

    https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPS3.5

    Note that these modifications are not necessarily "better", as although the trigger pull weight is dramatically reduced, pull may be too light for hunting/service applications, and may fail to consistently fire some commercially available ammo. This modification is 100% reliable for firing ammo assembled with CCI400 primers. (The firing pin can be modified to improve ignition reliability of commercial/military ammo, but that's another story.)
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Don't neglect the Giselle B-GRF trigger. Very nice and often on sale for < $130. I have 5.
     

    SigDog

    Active Member
    Feb 11, 2013
    173
    West Virginia
    LaRue is currently on sale for $87... I have a Geissele and the LaRue... the LaRue is great and is less than half the price. Prob one of the best triggers for the price.

    https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/


    ^^^^^This^^^^^

    I have a Giselle in one rifle and a Hogan in another, both great triggers, both over $225.
    I just put a LaRue in a newish build that badly needed a better trigger.
    I'll be ordering another one for my current project.
     

    Mr. Ed

    This IS my Happy Face
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2009
    7,899
    Edgewater
    Gotta say I think the Larue is every bit as good as a Geissle, maybe even better. I have four Geissle SSA-Es and just installed my first Larue, and I can't tell the difference. I vote for the Larue.
     

    Gorba

    Deplorable Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 24, 2018
    341
    Annapolis
    Gotta say I think the Larue is every bit as good as a Geissle, maybe even better. I have four Geissle SSA-Es and just installed my first Larue, and I can't tell the difference. I vote for the Larue.

    Me too!
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    Okay, I am a cheap SOB and try to save a buck whenever I can. If you already have an AR that meets mil-specs, you have the base for a very nice firearm. There are more ways to upgrade it, than you will care to do.

    If you are planning to use your AR for precision shooting, then perhaps an aftermarket trigger is the way you should go. If your AR is more of a SHTF weapon, do not change it! Changes to your trigger can adversely affect reliability. If you are looking for something in between, and have good mechanical skills and pay attention to the smallest details, then perhaps some light trigger work is something you can handle yourself.

    Also consider the future. Some uppers do not play nicely with light triggers. Think about the ammunition you intend to use. Once you have considered these things, and decide on the desired end result, you can choose the route to take with confidence your gun will work as intended when complete.

    If doing the work yourself, the key is not changing any of the angles when polishing the hammer and sear. A trigger adjustment screw(~$15) can be installed to reduce the creep. Some minor modification to the mil-spec springs can lighten the trigger pull a little. Most of my AR triggers are around 3 lbs. on the trigger pull and I experience no malfunctions while shooting. I only have a trigger adjustment screw in one, and it is the one I intend to use for precision shooting and is awaiting it's upper. Even so, the trigger pull is 2.5 lbs. as I have not yet adjusted the screw to take up the creep. I expect to get it to around 1.5 lbs when completed. Special attention was paid to pivot points in this build and reducing the friction on them took a little more off of the pull.

    If you plan on using steel cased ammo with a 7.62 x 39 upper, you may experience failures to fire due to light primer strikes. A heavier hammer spring is recommended in this case.

    There is some very good information available on YouTube but beware because there is also some pretty bad info, too! I use the following rule of thumb. If the person making the video is still waiting for his voice to change, it is probably not wise to follow his advice!

    Any trigger work done should be done slowly and carefully. If using a Dremel, be cautious. Make sure to use quality stones for the best results on the mating surfaces.
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    wow thanks guys.

    thanks for the feed back on the "best Ar". I guess for me my use would be competition shooting and precision. But with that said i also like the defense and combat shooting as well. Like i said i am new to the Ar so i have not completely formed a direction yet. Which is why i see a lot of my friends that i am learning from have multiple setups on multiple weapons. Makes perfect sense...there is no 1 perfect at all AR...there is give and take. But i am not one to just buy it and throw it in the safe and new use it. So far i have shot it 20 of the last 30 days i have owned it. I have also signed up for classes to lean more about it so i can become more efficient with the weapon system. I am lucky enough to have to good friends that were both military gun instructors and they have helped me out a lot. But these guys have 20+ years of service/training where as i do not. So with all that said i would be looking for an AR more geared towards competition shooting and a second in defense/combat shooting.

    but back to triggers
    how is the Timney 667-S

    Again being a noob at triggers...is that to light of a trigger for my intended use of the weapon? And what is the difference and meaning of a 2 stage or single stage trigger? And might i find triggers at this weekends gun show?
     

    andy41567

    Active Member
    Oct 1, 2018
    176
    Okay, I am a cheap SOB and try to save a buck whenever I can. If you already have an AR that meets mil-specs, you have the base for a very nice firearm. There are more ways to upgrade it, than you will care to do.

    If you are planning to use your AR for precision shooting, then perhaps an aftermarket trigger is the way you should go. If your AR is more of a SHTF weapon, do not change it! Changes to your trigger can adversely affect reliability. If you are looking for something in between, and have good mechanical skills and pay attention to the smallest details, then perhaps some light trigger work is something you can handle yourself.

    Also consider the future. Some uppers do not play nicely with light triggers. Think about the ammunition you intend to use. Once you have considered these things, and decide on the desired end result, you can choose the route to take with confidence your gun will work as intended when complete.

    If doing the work yourself, the key is not changing any of the angles when polishing the hammer and sear. A trigger adjustment screw(~$15) can be installed to reduce the creep. Some minor modification to the mil-spec springs can lighten the trigger pull a little. Most of my AR triggers are around 3 lbs. on the trigger pull and I experience no malfunctions while shooting. I only have a trigger adjustment screw in one, and it is the one I intend to use for precision shooting and is awaiting it's upper. Even so, the trigger pull is 2.5 lbs. as I have not yet adjusted the screw to take up the creep. I expect to get it to around 1.5 lbs when completed. Special attention was paid to pivot points in this build and reducing the friction on them took a little more off of the pull.

    If you plan on using steel cased ammo with a 7.62 x 39 upper, you may experience failures to fire due to light primer strikes. A heavier hammer spring is recommended in this case.

    There is some very good information available on YouTube but beware because there is also some pretty bad info, too! I use the following rule of thumb. If the person making the video is still waiting for his voice to change, it is probably not wise to follow his advice!

    Any trigger work done should be done slowly and carefully. If using a Dremel, be cautious. Make sure to use quality stones for the best results on the mating surfaces.

    i was typing my above post as your most of posted and did not see it. But after reading it you answered some of my questions and brought up a couple more.

    so my intended use is stated in my last post as well as the trigger i am considering. So my question is will that setup be ok with any ammo or do i need to watch and be very picky on my ammo i can use with that trigger. I would like to be able to use any ammo as i do not know everything there is to know about ammo...yet. Oh and i am shooting just 5.56. But what has sparked this whole thing is the current trigger on my Ar now has a pull of about 8lbs. I did not measure it. But while shooting and being critique after my shooting session we seem to always come back to the trigger performance.
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    For precision shooting with an AR, most will choose a Wylde barrel. The chamber is cut differently and was designed specifically for overall accuracy. Twist rate is also a consideration. The more twist, the lighter the bullet will need to be. 5.56 NATO marked barrels are not the best choice for precision shooting. I use 62 gr. bullets for my 1:7 twist barrels and 55 gr. bullets for the 1:8 barrels. All of my guns will fire any of my ammunition, but if I want accuracy, the bullet weight matters.

    If you do not reload, you are at the mercy of available ammunition and will not be able to "tune" your loads for the gun. Experiment with different brands and bullet weights until you find what works best. Most people that take up precision shooting, also take up reloading.

    If you would like to use any available ammo, look up the 15 minute AR trigger job. http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm

    Using his instructions, it is nearly impossible to screw up anything. If you do not like the result, simply replace the hammer and trigger springs.

    This method has yielded great results on mine. I have gone beyond this to polishing the surfaces until mirror bright.

    I have put together some general purpose loads and have "tuned" some for specific uppers. This is done by experimenting with overall length and charge size until the tightest grouping is achieved.

    I am of the opinion that the first AR should be pretty much kept mil-spec for SHTF scenarios. After that, a separate lower with a smooth, crisp trigger and a light pull mated to a heavy barreled Wylde upper and a high quality scope for precision shooting. Once you have these, then you may want to add additional lowers to your collection if intending to shoot 7.62 x 39 or handgun calibers. These may require specific buffers or heavier springs to operate properly.

    My recommendation is to have at least 4 lowers: SHTF(mil-spec), precision(light, crisp trigger), commie rounds(heavier hammer spring), handgun rounds(appropriate buffer)
    With these, you can attach an appropriate upper and be reasonably certain it will function reliably and take full advantage of the modular AR platform.
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,378
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    For precision shooting with an AR, most will choose a Wylde barrel. The chamber is cut differently and was designed specifically for overall accuracy. Twist rate is also a consideration. The more twist, the lighter the bullet will need to be. 5.56 NATO marked barrels are not the best choice for precision shooting. I use 62 gr. bullets for my 1:7 twist barrels and 55 gr. bullets for the 1:8 barrels. All of my guns will fire any of my ammunition, but if I want accuracy, the bullet weight matters.

    If you do not reload, you are at the mercy of available ammunition and will not be able to "tune" your loads for the gun. Experiment with different brands and bullet weights until you find what works best. Most people that take up precision shooting, also take up reloading.

    If you would like to use any available ammo, look up the 15 minute AR trigger job. http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm

    Using his instructions, it is nearly impossible to screw up anything. If you do not like the result, simply replace the hammer and trigger springs.

    This method has yielded great results on mine. I have gone beyond this to polishing the surfaces until mirror bright.

    I have put together some general purpose loads and have "tuned" some for specific uppers. This is done by experimenting with overall length and charge size until the tightest grouping is achieved.

    I am of the opinion that the first AR should be pretty much kept mil-spec for SHTF scenarios. After that, a separate lower with a smooth, crisp trigger and a light pull mated to a heavy barreled Wylde upper and a high quality scope for precision shooting. Once you have these, then you may want to add additional lowers to your collection if intending to shoot 7.62 x 39 or handgun calibers. These may require specific buffers or heavier springs to operate properly.

    My recommendation is to have at least 4 lowers: SHTF(mil-spec), precision(light, crisp trigger), commie rounds(heavier hammer spring), handgun rounds(appropriate buffer)
    With these, you can attach an appropriate upper and be reasonably certain it will function reliably and take full advantage of the modular AR platform.

    I don't take issue with most of what you've written. But, "I'll pick a nit" here, so to speak, about the idea that the more twist the lighter the bullet that will be best stabilized. A 1 in 7" twist is faster to better stabilize longer (thus heavier) bullets than a 1 in 8" twist. A 1 in 9" twist will do well with yet lighter bullets. At any rate a 1-7 is a faster (i.e. has more) twist than a 1-8. 1-7 twist rates best shine in most cases with the heavier bullets generally 68 gr or heavier but often perform decently with lighter ammo. But 1-8 and 1-9 twists will work very well with the ammo most shoot most often. I think most would say a faster twist rate like 1-7 is 'more twist' than 1-8 or 1-9
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    wow thanks guys.

    thanks for the feed back on the "best Ar". I guess for me my use would be competition shooting and precision. But with that said i also like the defense and combat shooting as well. Like i said i am new to the Ar so i have not completely formed a direction yet. Which is why i see a lot of my friends that i am learning from have multiple setups on multiple weapons. Makes perfect sense...there is no 1 perfect at all AR...there is give and take. But i am not one to just buy it and throw it in the safe and new use it. So far i have shot it 20 of the last 30 days i have owned it. I have also signed up for classes to lean more about it so i can become more efficient with the weapon system. I am lucky enough to have to good friends that were both military gun instructors and they have helped me out a lot. But these guys have 20+ years of service/training where as i do not. So with all that said i would be looking for an AR more geared towards competition shooting and a second in defense/combat shooting.

    but back to triggers
    how is the Timney 667-S

    Again being a noob at triggers...is that to light of a trigger for my intended use of the weapon? And what is the difference and meaning of a 2 stage or single stage trigger? And might i find triggers at this weekends gun show?

    Look at what was suggested in the thread. There are many cheaper options which will give you the same pull weight as you get with the Timney. By and large, the monolithic trigger designs are not considered to be as good as what was brought up already.
     

    Yoshi

    Invictus
    Jun 9, 2010
    4,520
    Someplace in Maryland
    I have the BCM trigger and like it a lot. It's not a two-stage but it's good and less expensive than some others. It wont be the best for precision work but unless you want tiny groups, it'll suit you well.
     

    GuitarmanNick

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 9, 2017
    2,221
    Laurel
    I don't take issue with most of what you've written. But, "I'll pick a nit" here, so to speak, about the idea that the more twist the lighter the bullet that will be best stabilized. A 1 in 7" twist is faster to better stabilize longer (thus heavier) bullets than a 1 in 8" twist. A 1 in 9" twist will do well with yet lighter bullets. At any rate a 1-7 is a faster (i.e. has more) twist than a 1-8. 1-7 twist rates best shine in most cases with the heavier bullets generally 68 gr or heavier but often perform decently with lighter ammo. But 1-8 and 1-9 twists will work very well with the ammo most shoot most often. I think most would say a faster twist rate like 1-7 is 'more twist' than 1-8 or 1-9

    What I should have said was "the higher the twist rate", instead of "the more twist". You are correct. Not sure how I let that slip through. I am usually careful to proof read before posting.

    Heck, we didn't even mention barrel lengths! :)
     

    DivingDriver

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 14, 2016
    1,514
    Nanjemoy MD
    Second a LaRue trigger. 87 bucks on sale right now. Can't be beat. For the record I have 3 others that I will use on future builds.
     

    KYtoMD

    Member
    Mar 23, 2017
    59
    MD
    I recommend Geissele triggers. The G2S is an awesome upgrade from a milspec trigger for around $120 on sale. Have heard a lot of good things about the Larue MBT as well.
     

    Magnumite

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 17, 2007
    6,564
    Harford County, Maryland
    What I saw in the OP's pic was a practical carbine. For a trigger I would use one of Gieselle's ALG QMS or ACT improved mil spec triggers. Works more with the configuration of the present configuration of the carbine. I prefer a single stage for faster trigger work...but that is a personal preference. Shooting at max speed one won't be using the advantages of a two stage unit. The more costly of the two only go for about $45 (??).
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    The advice on polishing and springs is for a paper puncher at best.

    Putting in light springs or things like kns pins cause inconsistent lock time and hurts accuracy. It may "feel" better but it's not an improvement.

    If you want reliability and performance there are 2 choices. Geissele and LaRue.

    Use the heavier springs in the LaRue.

    Those who say Geissele or LaRue is unreliable should not be heeded.
     

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