Can you explain this sign to me ?

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  • danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Open carry of long guns is perfectly fine in MD unless it is as at protest and police have informed you that OC has been banned.

    They just don’t want someone sauntering in with an AR-15 on their shoulder.

    Or are idiots.

    I’d go with the later.

    Long gun open carry is illegal in Baltimore City. It may also be illegal in Annapolis. You'd have to check city code.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Long gun open carry is illegal in Baltimore City. It may also be illegal in Annapolis. You'd have to check city code.

    I think that is only covers the grandfathered pre-emption stuff, right? Which should pretty much just be Baltimore (and maybe whatever those 2 or 3 other towns/cities are) that have a few grandfathered transport/carry ordinances.

    If I am wrong though, please let me know (so I’ll know for next time).

    PS Have I said today I dislike MD?
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I think that is only covers the grandfathered pre-emption stuff, right? Which should pretty much just be Baltimore (and maybe whatever those 2 or 3 other towns/cities are) that have a few grandfathered transport/carry ordinances.

    If I am wrong though, please let me know (so I’ll know for next time).

    PS Have I said today I dislike MD?

    Long gun open (or concealed) carry on ones person for self defense is simply not addressed at the state level. There is really no state pre-emption, since there is nothing to pre-empt. There is no state level statute that says something like "its legal except in Baltimore City and Ocean City." Municipalities can do whatever they want. Long gun carry is illegal in Baltimore, in Montgomery county except under certain circumstances (like hunting or on your own property), probably a lot of other places at the local level. I'd check Annapolis code. I'd guess the code days no bueno, like Baltimore.

    ETA: see here fo MoCo:

    It shall be unlawful for any person to have upon his person, concealed or exposed, or in a motor vehicle where it is readily available for use, any gun designed to use explosive ammunition unless:

    (a) Lawful mission. Such person is then engaged upon a lawful mission for which it is necessary to carry a gun upon his person; or

    (b) Special guard, special police, etc. Such person is employed as a special guard, special police officer or special detective and has been lawfully deputized by the sheriff for the county, or has been appointed a constable in the county, or has been licensed under the laws of the state, should such a law be enacted, to carry such gun and then is on or in the immediate vicinity of the premises of any employer whose occupation lawfully requires the employment of a person carrying a gun while in the discharge of the duties of such employment; or

    (c) Military service. Such person is then lawfully engaged in military service or as a duly authorized peace officer; or

    (d) Hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in lawful hunting, drill, training or target practice on property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; or

    (e) Going to or returning from hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in going to or from lawful hunting, drill training or target practice, or in delivering such gun to or carrying it from a gunsmith or repairman, or is engaged in any other lawful transfer of possession; provided, that such person shall be on or traveling upon a public highway or property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; provided further, that such gun shall not be loaded with explosive ammunition. (1981 L.M.C., ch. 42, § 1; 2001 L.M.C., ch.11, § 1.)
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    There is really no state pre-emption, since there is nothing to pre-empt.

    Yes there is.

    Maryland Criminal Law, § 4-209:

    § 4-209.
    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, the State preempts the right of a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of:

    (1) a handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and

    (2) ammunition for and components of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

    (b) (1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:

    (i) with respect to minors;

    (ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and

    (iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.

    (2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or training in firearms safety, or other educational or sporting use of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section.

    (c) To the extent that a local law does not create an inconsistency with this section or expand existing regulatory control, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may exercise its existing authority to amend any local law that existed on or before December 31, 1984.

    (d) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, in accordance with law, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

    (2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of firearms at established ranges.

    The state preempts any locality from establishing rules relating to "the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of.... a handgun, rifle, or shotgun" and the ammunition for such.

    Can you cite a Baltimore City law that would make this illegal? It would have had to be on the books before 12/1984.

    For the Montgomery County bit it does look like that was enacted in 1981 so it's old enough to be grandfathered. However.... they don't define what "lawful missions" are. Hmmm...
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Yes there is.

    Maryland Criminal Law, § 4-209:



    The state preempts any locality from establishing rules relating to "the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of.... a handgun, rifle, or shotgun" and the ammunition for such.

    Can you cite a Baltimore City law that would make this illegal? It would have had to be on the books before 12/1984.

    For the Montgomery County bit it does look like that was enacted in 1981 so it's old enough to be grandfathered. However.... they don't define what "lawful missions" are. Hmmm...

    I did not say "purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of"

    I said: Carry a loaded long gun on ones person, for self defense, which is not covered by transport. Transport is unloaded, cased or holstered, with ammo separate from the gun.

    Long gun carry (open or concealed) is illegal in many places in Maryland. Some places have a carve out for hunting. You should check Annapolis City code.
     

    CrazySanMan

    2013'er
    Mar 4, 2013
    11,390
    Colorful Colorado
    does CO have some sort of pre-emption for this?

    It is a little bizarre to see this sign in MD. If some corporate bureaucrat asshat is not to blame, well its even more bizarre.

    maybe they are trying to prevent a robbery... :lol2:

    There are places posted in Colorado but the signs do not carry the weight of law. If I carry in a store that is posted gun free, the manager or owner can ask me to leave and have me charged with trespassing if I refuse, but there is no law broken for carrying where it is posted. There are a few places where it is illegal to carry, like federal buildings, schools, and anywhere that provides a metal detector and armed guards at the entrances.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    I did not say "purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of"

    I said: Carry a loaded long gun on ones person, for self defense, which is not covered by transport. Transport is unloaded, cased or holstered, with ammo separate from the gun.

    Long gun carry (open or concealed) is illegal in many places in Maryland. Some places have a carve out for hunting. You should check Annapolis City code.

    That’s incorrect. This is the MD statute on Carrying a firearm (does not include the handgun issues). The state pre-emption is going to blanket prevent a subdivision of the state of making any laws with respect to firearms other than regulating their discharge excepted as noted in the pre-emption law or if the subdivision has a law on the box’s prior than 1984.

    Article - Criminal Law

    § 4-208.

    (a) (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

    (2) (i) "Demonstration" means one or more persons demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking, marching, holding a vigil, or engaging in any other similar conduct that involves the communication or expression of views or grievances and that has the effect, intent, or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

    (ii) "Demonstration" does not include the casual use of property by visitors or tourists that does not have the intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

    (3) (i) "Firearm" means a handgun, rifle, shotgun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or any other firearm, whether loaded or unloaded.

    (ii) "Firearm" does not include an antique firearm.

    (4) "Handgun" has the meaning stated in § 5-101 of the Public Safety Article.

    (5) "Law enforcement officer" means:

    (i) a member of a police force or other unit of the United States, the State, a county, municipal corporation, or other political subdivision who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the laws of the United States, the State, a county, municipal corporation, or other political subdivision;

    (ii) a park police officer of the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission;

    (iii) a member of the University of Maryland police force; and

    (iv) any military or militia personnel directed by constituted authority to keep law and order.

    (6) (i) "Public place" means a place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment, or other lawful purpose.

    (ii) "Public place" is not limited to a place devoted solely to the uses of the public.

    (iii) "Public place" includes:

    1. the front or immediate area or parking lot of a store, restaurant, tavern, shopping center, or other place of business;

    2. a public building, including its grounds and curtilage;

    3. a public parking lot;

    4. a public street, sidewalk, or right-of-way;

    5. a public park; and

    6. other public grounds.

    (b) (1) This subsection does not apply to a law enforcement officer.

    (2) A person may not have a firearm in the person's possession or on or about the person at a demonstration in a public place or in a vehicle that is within 1,000 feet of a demonstration in a public place after:

    (i) the person has been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration is occurring at the public place; and

    (ii) the person has been ordered by the law enforcement officer to leave the area of the demonstration until the person disposes of the firearm.

    (c) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    To whit, unless it is a grandfathered law, or within 100yds of the mentioned places (schools, parks, churches) subdivisions of the state cannot ban posession of a long gun.

    LEOs can tell you to take your long gun home if you are at or within a certain distance from a demonstration. That’s about it.

    Also I am going to use bloody common since in this communist hell hole and not try to make a statement and/or openly carry a long gun places where it is going to draw unwanted lubral attention like walking down the streets of Annapolis (supposing they don’t have a grandfathered law).
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    To whit, unless it is a grandfathered law, or within 100yds of the mentioned places (schools, parks, churches) subdivisions of the state cannot ban posession of a long gun.

    LEOs can tell you to take your long gun home if you are at or within a certain distance from a demonstration. That’s about it.

    Also I am going to use bloody common since in this communist hell hole and not try to make a statement and/or openly carry a long gun places where it is going to draw unwanted lubral attention like walking down the streets of Annapolis (supposing they don’t have a grandfathered law).

    Again, I did not say possession! carrying a loaded firearm on ones person is not merely "possession" or transport!

    The section 4-208 you cite covers demonstrations. And, its 1000 yds not 100 yds. That extra 0 matters! Annapolis is small, there is probably always a "demonstration" somewhere in Annapolis.

    You will probably be able to argue whether the municipal code banning loaded long gun carry is validly grandfathered on your appeal, after you have been tried and convicted. Good luck with that.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Again, I did not say possession! carrying a loaded firearm on ones person is not merely "possession" or transport!

    The section 4-208 you cite covers demonstrations. And, its 1000 yds not 100 yds. That extra 0 matters! Annapolis is small, there is probably always a "demonstration" somewhere in Annapolis.

    You will probably be able to argue whether the municipal code banning loaded long gun carry is validly grandfathered on your appeal, after you have been tried and convicted. Good luck with that.

    Yes, for a demonstration it is 1000yds, but LEO has to notify you. It doesn’t matter if it IS one. A law enforcement officer has to TELL you it is a demonstration and that you must remove the firearm. They can’t simply arrest and charge you for having one on or about you.

    The 100yds for school, church, etc a municipality can ban you from having posession (though they can’t on your own property if you happen to live within that distance). And the if you get caught with one, you can be subject to arrest and charges.

    I think you are looking way to closely and reading something in to it that isn’t present. The MD criminal statute list on pre-emotion is fairly comprehensive on what subdivisions can regulate with firearms. They effectively can only regulate discharge of a firearm and posession within 100yds of a school, church or playground or they can amend an existing ordinance if it existed before 1984.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I think you are looking way to closely and reading something in to it that isn’t present. The MD criminal statute list on pre-emotion is fairly comprehensive on what subdivisions can regulate with firearms. They effectively can only regulate discharge of a firearm and posession within 100yds of a school, church or playground or they can amend an existing ordinance if it existed before 1984.

    and also, loaded carry of a long gun. Pre-emption statute does not cover it. When you are arrested for it in Montgomery county or Baltimore City, be sure to argue with the LEO whether the law was properly grandfathered.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    The statute that covers carry of ( firearms other than Handguns) ( and crapload of other weapons) is 4-101 .

    Relevant portions :

    Can NOT be carried Concealed .
    Can not be carried Openly with intent comit (various evil acts) .

    And the Real issues that affect LGOC are statutes that don't mention guns or firearms , and Amendments that aren't the 2nd .
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    and also, loaded carry of a long gun. Pre-emption statute does not cover it. When you are arrested for it in Montgomery county or Baltimore City, be sure to argue with the LEO whether the law was properly grandfathered.

    The preemption statute doesn’t say anything about an exception for it being loaded.

    Montgomery county and Baltimore cities’ laws are definitely grandfathered as they predate the law. So there wouldn’t be any arguing with the officer.
     

    lemmdus

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2015
    380
    So no uniformed police officers allowed, but hey, gang bangers carrying in their pants are welcome. I guess they want to be like Starbucks.
     

    W2D

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 2, 2015
    2,074
    Escaped MD for FL
    Again, I did not say possession! carrying a loaded firearm on ones person is not merely "possession" or transport!

    The section 4-208 you cite covers demonstrations. And, its 1000 yds not 100 yds. That extra 0 matters! Annapolis is small, there is probably always a "demonstration" somewhere in Annapolis.

    You will probably be able to argue whether the municipal code banning loaded long gun carry is validly grandfathered on your appeal, after you have been tried and convicted. Good luck with that.



    What was quoted in post 28 said 1000 ft, not 1000 yards.

    Carry on...


    Sent from my bunker using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Up_in_BoCo

    Dedicated plinker
    Oct 22, 2014
    37
    HZ
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