Private Sales of Non-regulated Arms.

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Comments in bold below:

    How’s you meet the rando to sell the gun? Was there ever electronic communication between you two? Did you ever post a picture of the gun somewhere?

    There are always a lot more than just the guys word against you, to convict you. And I’d imagine MSP and the DA will leverage whatever they can if joe rando ends up involved in a serious crime and fingers you as having provided the gun.

    Many states it is not legal to consume alcohol for minors under your roof.

    On the new firearm, my point is if the firearm was sold new after the enacting of this law. You sell it later or someone sells it to you, pretty easy to prove you guys broke the law as the trail stops at the FFL who last sold it with no records from another FFL proving you guys followed the law...

    Not sure if MSP will run stings, but I’d bet some will happen. Do cops never run stings on gun or drug sales? Seems you hear cases of cops staking out gun shows often enough looking for whatever. Are you really telling me no departments will have the resources or inclination to run a sting? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    The passing of the law really doesn't change anything, MSP still has no clue when the rifle/shotgun was purchased, and unless they can have reason to believe the law was subverted, they have no reason to take a firearm and check the manufacture date and run down when it was sold by an FFL.
    Exactly.
     

    boothdoc

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 23, 2008
    5,133
    Frederick county
    It is all about control and stopping people from getting into this sport. Any type of road block thru additional cost or paperwork. Anything to prevent folks from freely enjoying the firearm sports.

    Firearms are evil and they want them gone. They will take any chip in reducing this freedom. ANYTHING is a victory for them.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    It is all about control and stopping people from getting into this sport. Any type of road block thru additional cost or paperwork. Anything to prevent folks from freely enjoying the firearm sports.

    Firearms are evil and they want them gone. They will take any chip in reducing this freedom. ANYTHING is a victory for them.
    I'm dealing with this right now. I have an adult son who wants to get his own pistol for personal protection - he's getting ready to move into an apartment in the city because his GF is a bougie airhead and thinks she needs to be within walking distance of Fells and such. (He's currently living in the burbs) He basically wants a nightstand gun.

    We've been shopping pistols and found a great deal. Unfortunately he's still in the process of getting his HQL, so I'm going to have to buy the pistol so that we don't miss out on the deal, and I'll have to transfer it to him once he finally gets his HQL, which is going to cost him a fair amount of bucks on top of the cost of the gun.

    Of course none of this is new - we've all known about this ******** since it was passed in 2013, but it was different for me - I already had guns and I have more financial means than he does, so it pisses me off that this young kid has to go through this just to exercise what should be a fundamental right.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    I'm dealing with this right now. I have an adult son who wants to get his own pistol for personal protection - he's getting ready to move into an apartment in the city because his GF is a bougie airhead and thinks she needs to be within walking distance of Fells and such. (He's currently living in the burbs) He basically wants a nightstand gun.

    We've been shopping pistols and found a great deal. Unfortunately he's still in the process of getting his HQL, so I'm going to have to buy the pistol so that we don't miss out on the deal, and I'll have to transfer it to him once he finally gets his HQL, which is going to cost him a fair amount of bucks on top of the cost of the gun.

    Of course none of this is new - we've all known about this ******** since it was passed in 2013, but it was different for me - I already had guns and I have more financial means than he does, so it pisses me off that this young kid has to go through this just to exercise what should be a fundamental right.

    Some shops will hold a gun pending HQL if you pay for it
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    Some shops will hold a gun pending HQL if you pay for it
    This is a classifieds private sale. I'll buy the gun and keep it, and then my son and I can work out the details once he's fully legal in the eyes of Maryland.

    Ugh - sometimes I think it would just be easier to be a criminal rather than making sure I've dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's legally, but that's exactly what the gun grabbers want. As awful as it is, I have to obey the laws.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I'm dealing with this right now. I have an adult son who wants to get his own pistol for personal protection - he's getting ready to move into an apartment in the city because his GF is a bougie airhead and thinks she needs to be within walking distance of Fells and such. (He's currently living in the burbs) He basically wants a nightstand gun.

    We've been shopping pistols and found a great deal. Unfortunately he's still in the process of getting his HQL, so I'm going to have to buy the pistol so that we don't miss out on the deal, and I'll have to transfer it to him once he finally gets his HQL, which is going to cost him a fair amount of bucks on top of the cost of the gun.

    Of course none of this is new - we've all known about this ******** since it was passed in 2013, but it was different for me - I already had guns and I have more financial means than he does, so it pisses me off that this young kid has to go through this just to exercise what should be a fundamental right.

    Also once he has his HQL, it cost $10 to transfer it to him. Do a 77r, go to the MSP barracks with the handgun (leave it in the trunk, unloaded, slide back) and 15-60 minutes later you'll be done. In 7 days you'll get the not disapproved and then hand it to him.

    The two annoyances are the wait and going to a barracks, but the cost is nominal once you have an HQL to transfer a regulated firearm.

    Honestly one of my biggest issues with the private transfer bill is that you cannot go to a barracks to do that transfer of a long gun. Which increases the cost by a lot. Now, maybe a lot of FFLs will do it for a nominal cost, but I bet most are going to charge their standard long gun transfer fee. Which seems to be in the range of $20-40. Sucks real bad when you are trying to buy or sell an old $120 single shot, shotgun or 22 to pay $40 on top of that.

    Again, should not have to.

    But it isn't a big financial cost (for the regulated firearm and using the barracks). Of course going with a shop, most are probably going to charge $30-60 to do a regulated firearm transfer, on top of the $10 MSP is going to charge to run the 77r.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,598
    Glen Burnie
    ^^ I just went to the barracks near me over lunch to buy the pistol and transfer it to me. Talk about lickety-split. I think the whole thing in the barracks itself lasted all of 10 minutes maybe? I think me and the other guy spent more time just shooting the breeze about our various passions in shooting.

    The good news is that once my son has the pistol after getting his HQL, he has it, and his HQL will last a good long bit.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    ^^ I just went to the barracks near me over lunch to buy the pistol and transfer it to me. Talk about lickety-split. I think the whole thing in the barracks itself lasted all of 10 minutes maybe? I think me and the other guy spent more time just shooting the breeze about our various passions in shooting.

    The good news is that once my son has the pistol after getting his HQL, he has it, and his HQL will last a good long bit.

    Yup. My one time at the e barracks experience was smooth and nice guy. Took awhile, but only because there were two or three guys ahead of us dealing with some other stuff. So we had to wait about 20 minutes. Took maybe 15 or so once it was our turn, but it was partly getting the desk trooper to figure out how to enter a Cz50 assuring him it very much predated the handgun list.
     

    tigmaned

    Active Member
    Feb 25, 2007
    522
    Crofton
    i have always had good luck at the Glen Burnie MDSP Barracks.. it seems like now they a have a civilian guy there working just for this.. must keep the Troopers out on the road more..
    i just wish MDSP would do the NEW BS law of long gun transfers too.. were left to deal with FFL's prices on that..
     

    Texas solo

    Member
    Mar 5, 2021
    42
    You have not been able to sell/transfer a HANDGUN in Md since 1986 without going through an FFL.
    So does this new law just add long guns to the already existing law?
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    You have not been able to sell/transfer a HANDGUN in Md since 1986.
    So does this new law just add long guns to the already existing law?

    No, its worse!

    Long gun transfers that don't meet the exception list can not be done (to my knowledge) for $10 at an MSP barracks like Pistols.

    Gotta go to FFL01/02 (I think those are the 2 types?) They will charge $25-$50 depending on who it is.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    No, its worse!

    Long gun transfers that don't meet the exception list can not be done (to my knowledge) for $10 at an MSP barracks like Pistols.

    Gotta go to FFL01/02 (I think those are the 2 types?) They will charge $25-$50 depending on who it is.

    01 is a dealer or gunsmith. 02 is a pawn shop.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,536
    Columbia
    You have not been able to sell/transfer a HANDGUN in Md since 1986 without going through an FFL.
    So does this new law just add long guns to the already existing law?

    It was later than that, 1996 or so.
    Long guns will have to be transferred the same way as handguns although it doesn't look like MSP will do long gun transfers
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    It was later than that, 1996 or so.
    Long guns will have to be transferred the same way as handguns although it doesn't look like MSP will do long gun transfers

    No.

    Handguns require a 77r, a 4473, an HQL (unless they are C&R), a $10 MSP background check fee and a 7 day wait. Oh and they must be on the roster. Plus an FFL fee if you use one.

    A long gun just requires an FFL to transfer it to their books, runs background check, charge their fee and hand it over.

    Those kind of aren’t remotely the same. It would be really nice if MSP could/would do the transfer for $10.

    Or you know, no law.

    But a regulated firearm and a long gun transfer aren’t even a little the same.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    What would have been nice would be for anyone to have access to the NICS sysyem to voluntarily run a check on someone before selling to them.

    For free.

    A couple of countries do this. They’ve got a National electronic system. You register yourself (for free) to conduct a check. Then you enter the person’s name, address and license number and you get a go or no go in real time.

    I don’t want universal background checks. But if they are going to do it, it shouldn’t be hard just to give people access. Enter someone’s name, DL #, address and birthdate. Proceed, hold or denied. Hand it over.

    If you want more privacy the purchaser enters their information and a unique transaction ID is generated. The seller puts the transaction ID in to the system and it’ll tell them to proceed or not and could provide the name and picture of the person (based on DMV records) to verify it is the person.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I"ve never done a 4473 form at a MSP barracks for person to person sale. the 4473 is a fed thing at a gun shop. MSP can't do a 4473 I don't think.

    If fed switches up and then requires a 4473 for person to person, MSP barracks handgun transfers may end up stopping.


    No.

    Handguns require a 77r, a 4473, an HQL (unless they are C&R), a $10 MSP background check fee and a 7 day wait. Oh and they must be on the roster. Plus an FFL fee if you use one.

    A long gun just requires an FFL to transfer it to their books, runs background check, charge their fee and hand it over.

    Those kind of aren’t remotely the same. It would be really nice if MSP could/would do the transfer for $10.

    Or you know, no law.

    But a regulated firearm and a long gun transfer aren’t even a little the same.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,174
    Outside the Gates
    I"ve never done a 4473 form at a MSP barracks for person to person sale. the 4473 is a fed thing at a gun shop. MSP can't do a 4473 I don't think.

    If fed switches up and then requires a 4473 for person to person, MSP barracks handgun transfers may end up stopping.

    Theoretically possible, but I have serious doubts about federal law changing that much any time soon
     

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