Recovering a handgun from MD

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  • kwc

    Member
    Sep 18, 2017
    3
    Hello,

    As a PA resident I am new to the forum and am looking for some assistance in retrieving a handgun from MD.

    A relative of mine, a PA resident and PA LTCF holder, was involved in a vehicle accident in MD. Tragically, he did not survive and passed away on the scene. The deceased had a loaded handgun in the vehicle with him but did not possess a MD carry permit. The MD State Police currently have possession of the handgun.

    His mother, who is the executor for his estate and a PA resident, is attempting to retrieve his belongings. The police have stated that they can't give the handgun to her since it isn't "registered in her name." Of course, PA doesn't officially have a registration scheme, although maintenance of sales records database essentially amounts to one.

    We intend to argue that per PA Title 18, Section 6111.4, PA doesn't have a registration program. Furthermore, Section 6111(a) exempts transfers between parent and child from the "on FFL premises" transfer requirement. And lastly, intestate transfers across state lines are exempt from federal laws requiring passage through an FFL.

    Are there other angles we could or should use? One fly in the ointment is that the loaded handgun should not have been in MD to begin with. However, I don't know if that gives the police authorization to keep property recovered at the scene of the accident.

    I've posted a parallel inquiry at PAFOA.org.

    Thanks in advance for the help.
     

    Matlack

    Scribe
    Dec 15, 2008
    8,555
    MSP can be giant pains when it comes to recovering your property they have in their possession. Im not a lawyer, but firearms are permitted to cross state lines, especially when traveling. Also all of his property goes into an estate. Since your mother is the executor of the estate, she should be able to obtain his property for the execution of his estate. I would think she should only need a certificate of his death and the documentation showing she is the executor of his estate. There are better qualified legal eagles here, so dont jump the gun on what I have stated. Let's see what others suggest.
     

    kwc

    Member
    Sep 18, 2017
    3
    Thank you, Matlack. Yes, firearms can be transported through MD but only if doing so follows FOPA requirements (unloaded, inaccessible, in a case, etc.)
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Sorry for your loss. The problem you are going to run into is that it seems he was violating the law in MD. The police can seize and keep property connected to illegal activity (civil asset forfeiture). Maryland passed laws to restrict this last year (https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...be1c14fb8c8_story.html?utm_term=.196cecf1a7b3).

    You will almost surely need a lawyer. But, my guess is the legal fees will cost more than the gun is worth, and you may or may not get it back. And also, the MDSP is counting on this.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Time to call a lawyer.

    What is the gun? If it's a 10 year old Glock it likely isn't going to be worth it.

    Since there is no suspect (he's dead) I'm not sure it is evidence. I don't know if the courts would allow MSP to destroy it since it was "contraband" and carried illegal.


    You can look into filing a Writ of Replevin although I'm not sure if it would work in this case. Dealing with MSP's "gun guys" can be hard enough. If you are just speaking with the Trooper who handled the case you probably won't get far.
     
    Was he transporting the firearm in a "unloaded in the trunk" type situation or was he CCW'ing on his person? If the latter, I doubt your family will ever see it again.

    I am not a lawyer, but have gone through two years of BS to get firearms I legally owned returned to me from Baltimore PD.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,359
    SoMD / West PA
    If you go the lawyer route, do not play nice with the MSP, get a writ of replevin from a judge who is overseeing/reviewing/administering the estate.

    The MSP has to obey a court order. Anything else, you will only rack up lawyer bills, or continue to jacked around.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Our condolences on the loss of your friend.

    As noted, lawyer up, and it will be uphill because of having been illegally carried/ transported at the time of the tragic accident.

    As noted multiple times above , you may have to make a pragmatic decision relative to the monetary and sentimental value of the gun vs legal fees .
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    If you go the lawyer route, do not play nice with the MSP, get a writ of replevin from a judge who is overseeing/reviewing/administering the estate.

    The MSP has to obey a court order.

    They do?

    Wasn't there a court order telling them to process all requests for CCW without G&S for a short while following a court decision?
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,359
    SoMD / West PA
    They do?

    Wasn't there a court order telling them to process all requests for CCW without G&S for a short while following a court decision?

    Judge Legg stayed his decision pending review. :sad20:

    As in the OP's case. The OP will need something from an authority in PA, before the MSP will react. Otherwise the MSP will continue to stonewall.
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    Judge Legg stayed his decision pending review. :sad20:

    As in the OP's case. The OP will need something from an authority in PA, before the MSP will react. Otherwise the MSP will continue to stonewall.

    As I recall though there was a short period there where MSP licensing was just told to do nothing.
     

    kwc

    Member
    Sep 18, 2017
    3
    Thanks to all for the ideas, recommendations, and contacts. The handgun is a Springfield XDS (.45), purchased in 2013. We aren't to the point of being ready to hire a lawyer, and doubt the expense would be worth it from a fiscal standpoint.

    We are drafting correspondence to the MD State Police requesting an official, written status and explaining our understanding of PA law and federal law with respect to registration and estate transfers across state lines, citing the references I outlined in my original post. We will see where that takes us.

    Thanks again!

    kwc
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,359
    SoMD / West PA
    Thanks to all for the ideas, recommendations, and contacts. The handgun is a Springfield XDS (.45), purchased in 2013. We aren't to the point of being ready to hire a lawyer, and doubt the expense would be worth it from a fiscal standpoint.

    We are drafting correspondence to the MD State Police requesting an official, written status and explaining our understanding of PA law and federal law with respect to registration and estate transfers across state lines, citing the references I outlined in my original post. We will see where that takes us.

    Thanks again!

    kwc

    The PA judge overseeing the estate can write the "writ of replevin" for free. The judge in the orphans court has to sign off on the estate anyway, another piece of paper makes no difference to him.

    The MSP does not care about your understanding of PA or Federal law, they only care about what concerns them with MD law.
     

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