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Old May 22nd, 2020, 11:30 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco Overboard View Post
Bubba could have whacked that part off in a fit of deer hunting rage making the accuracy mods needed for the extreme performance necessary in that sort of endeavor.
God bless him.
I just finished watching one of the "Gun Myths" pow-wows with Ian from Forgotten Weapons and the guy from Bloke On The Range and one of the points covered in that session was about how normal sporterizing methods actually make the accuracy worse with Enfields where they can arguably make accuracy better on other older rifles with barrels that are heavier.

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Originally Posted by mawkie View Post
Good save! Nice to see you have managed to scrounge everything necessary to bring it back to original configuration. And it didn't take forever, unlike most of my projects. Unusual to find one w.o. import marks. And the pressure proof marks on the barrel meant it was in private hands in the UK at some point. Though I can't ever remember seeing them on a No4 before. On No1s and Metfords, yes. Interesting.
This is the 2nd auction I can remember where many of the items suffered from poor storage. There were two interesting Finn MNs in this one that suffered from rust, a stepped barrel M24 and a very early 1893 dated Sesty.
Only the second one I've seen with the pressure proof marks. Mind you, I only started looking a about two months ago when working on a buddy's No.4 Mk.2 POF. I came across mention of it, but not on a Savage. The only other Savage I've seen so far is one that is absolutely beat up on GB right now It's got a screw in the same spot my cut original stock did and the seller suggests it's a "recoil lug for grenade launching" though I'm somewhat skeptical of that. It has the "England" export stamp on the left side of the muzzle and the crown stamp on the receiver. Mine has neither of these markings. That other rifle also a pre-68 import as it does not have an importers mark on it. Interestingly enough, it's only 659 rifles away from mine according to the serial number. Could have been made in the same week if not on the same day at that point in the war. I'll be interested to see what it hammers at given that the seller seems to be wrong on a few points. It's also worth noting that the one on GB has the early-style low-wall stock that provided for the magazine cutoff that was on the very early No.4 Mk.1 rifles whereas the original stock that came with mine was a high-wall. My NOS stock is also low-wall. Makes me wonder if it was re-stocked at some point, especially as it appears to have been stained or shellacked.

But I digress. I just found it interesting to see that one come up around the same time I got mine back together.

As for the condition of the arms at auction, I completely agree with you. Some of the stuff looked like it had been stored in a Mississippi saltwater marsh for a decade. I don't have some fancy climate control system, but I at least have an automatic dehumidifier running in the room where my locking cabinets are.
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Old May 23rd, 2020, 04:13 AM #12
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The British routinely FTR'd their arms including doing upgrades like the No4 MK1/2 so it's certainly not unusual to find lots of replacement parts on many examples. I'm just glad that the British collecting community hasn't gone down the rabbit hole that some M1 Garand and Carbine collectors have. The "purity test" I see enforced by them strikes me as counter productive IMHO. The rifle has a history that's true and if it included being refreshed to make it safe and accurate is what it is, not something to be derided. Though I'll say that I'm guilty as charged when it comes to matching numbers (physician heal thyself!).
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Old May 23rd, 2020, 12:42 PM #13
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Your rifle barrel has a Np (London proof House) pre 55 proof right on the barrel next to the sold out of service cip marks. For that time period it may have sufficed for import /export marks. English law is that all MOD rifles be proofed prior to sale. The England stamp is usually just right up to or after 1968 when enforcement became more prevalent and can be seen on civilian made arms.
MOd rifles destined for sell off abroad were usually securely stored before being sold off and may not display export marks from an English source other than the proofs.
Post 55 will have BNP over/under a crown for Birmingham that is usually located on the body or receiver ring or along the left body sidewall. The deep impression next to the Np is supposed to be a scimitar or seax held by a raised armored arm and its deeply struck losing some of its detail to some extent.

I have seen very little no 4 rifles without proofs/export marks and older imports sometimes have cryptic marks for proof or sold out of service on the knox flat or sidewall due to that form of gun control. I think some people maybe just assume they were applied when that particular rifle was in the shops. The earlier Le's with all the marks on the barrel knox are indicative of inspection or repair information for the next armorer. Sort of like the swede mausers but done in a way that an unauthorized field mod or swap cannot occur.

Sometimes they even have marks from other countries such as Germany that appear as little pricks or something that can be easily mistaken for a series of dents.

When fitting a no 4 stock pay to particular attention to how the draws and butt socket flat interact. Also, have a look to see that the action body does not have excessive movement before the main screw is tightened. A little bit of play can create havoc that in the worst case will split the stock right in front of the main screw. Remove the for-end from the rear by tapping downwards with a mallet, if it just falls off its got slack in it.

An interesting thing about these rifles is how the barrels are designed and manufactured to be compensated through comprehensive R&d. Earlier marks have a spring loaded screw near the front of the stock to control barrel vibration and no 4 's have a larger diameter barrel to accommodate for the change in length. When you remove the wood or alter the barrel length all that goes out the window to a large extent. Later variants with chopped factory fore-end wood are in nato calibers and designed with the same development to account for the missing wood.

Earlier on when I say compensated I do not mean something you screw on a pistol to reduce recoil. In this case it means predictable performance through all marks of ammo that can, by the compound sum of the barrel vibration and jump create alignment between barrel position in an angular measurement and bullet position in the last few inches of the barrel and where its precisely at as it exits the muzzle.

Bloke on the range is an accomplished Bisley shooter and very well regarded in the UK shooting disciplines. If you seen him do the rim lock yt video he seems kooky but has very good control manipulating that rifle dispelling some of the myths regarding chargers.
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Old May 23rd, 2020, 05:01 PM #14
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Doco Overboard, you are a treasure trove of knowledge! Seriously, thank you so much for lending me your eyes and brain on this restoration. I'd have had to search and search for the info in books that I don't have to figure out everything that you've told me over the course of two threads.

I am genuinely humbled that you've been so free with your help!

The stock on this is tight. there's no slop at all before tightening down the action screw. A white rubber mallet was necessary every time I removed the fore-end to check for fit, etc. Here's hoping it shoots well when I get out to the range!
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Old May 23rd, 2020, 05:42 PM #15
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Looks great. I got a svt40 from the same auction. No import marks either, heard all weapons came from someone in a nursing home kinda wondered where he got all of these
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Old May 23rd, 2020, 06:24 PM #16
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Originally Posted by schnmbang View Post
Looks great. I got a svt40 from the same auction. No import marks either, heard all weapons came from someone in a nursing home kinda wondered where he got all of these
So, what's the deal with the gold-colored bolt carrier and charging handle on that one? Most that I've seen have been the soviet plum color.
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Old Yesterday, 05:40 AM #17
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In my experience the bolt carriers that aren't the original in-the-white color are reworked Russian imports (like mine). Here in the US the majority of in-the-white carriers are found on Finn capture examples. I've only seen one in-the-white carrier that wasn't a Finn capture.
Enjoy shooting mine but not so much the post range cleaning. Not the easiest to field strip.
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Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM #18
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So, what's the deal with the gold-colored bolt carrier and charging handle on that one? Most that I've seen have been the soviet plum color.
From what I could find is sometimes for what ever reason the blueing that the Soviets applied to the bolt didn't turn to the plum color but gold. Some say it might be due to a higher nickle content in the steel of the bolt that caused the different color change. But what ever the reason gold ones do not show up that often over the plum ones. More of a oddity not a rarity
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Old Yesterday, 10:44 AM #19
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Can we just re-label this thread "The Education of tallen702" because there's all sorts of knowledge being dropped in here.
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