12 gauge, 20 gauge, or .410 for home defense?

Given the budget, you can get a .410 for her and a 12 for him if you just get a basic pump in both cases. Is .410 ideal? No. But it is something she is likely to be able to learn to shoot and get comfortable with, with about as much kick as a .22. Buy those Judge HD loads - PDX1 or 000 buck. I sure wouldn't want to get shot with that stuff.

It is much more important that she get something she is willing to train with than the caliber. If she finds even 20 harsh, she won't shoot it enough and so she won't be competent with it. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a 50 BMG.

It sounds like somebody needs to do a little shooting before the credit card comes out. If she is ok with 20 great. If she can handle 12, even better - more power and better ammo selection. But if she hates it - buy a .410 for her and don't look back. But let her abilities and comfort level decide the purchase, don't just decide without finding out what she is actually capable of and willing to do. A lot of women, even petite women, can handle a 12, so don't assume the worst until you see what she is capable of.

You also may find out when trying her out that she just totally hates the entire thing, won't train, etc. If that is the case, give her pepper spray and a baseball bat. Firearm ownership is a right, but it is also a responsibility. If she won't train regularly and learn how to use whatever she gets to a basic level of competency, then you should probably just forget about having her armed in your HD plans.

AlpineDude67 said:

Given the budget, you can get a .410 for her and a 12 for him if you just get a basic pump in both cases. Is .410 ideal? No. But it is something she is likely to be able to learn to shoot and get comfortable with, with about as much kick as a .22. Buy those Judge HD loads - PDX1 or 000 buck. I sure wouldn't want to get shot with that stuff.
...

It sounds like somebody needs to do a little shooting before the credit card comes out. If she is ok with 20 great. If she can handle 12, even better -... If she won't train regularly and learn how to use whatever she gets to a basic level of competency, then you should probably just forget about having her armed in your HD plans.

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Great advice. Since this discussion is mostly coming down to recoil, I'd like to point out:

1- Recoil reducing stocks do work. They might not reduce by a lot, but even a 20-30% felt reduction in recoil can be considerable.





And recoil reducing butt pads, some really fancy ones out there now.



2- Recoil reducing shoulder pads. A couple years ago I tried Trap shooting, decided I would be shooting a lot and different shotguns. So I picked up one of these pads. It really did make training/trap shooting more comfortable.



Here's a newer type:



3- There are several brands of 'low recoil' shotgun shells. Some even say 'low noise', I haven't tried the low noise variety yet, but I know the lower recoil ones really are softer to shoot. I even picked up some 'tactical' shells that are only about an inch long, they are really soft shooting, and I can get a bunch more in my long tube. I recall during the USSS Firearms Instructors Training Course (FITC) I attended, we shot a few 'less lethal' 'bean bag' rounds, I could hardly feel any recoil at all. Granted, these light load shells might not function in many semi-auto shotguns, and won't have the terminal ballistics necessary for a self-defense confrontation - but they are still great for training and familiarization.





4- A semi automatic will have less recoil than any other type of shotgun, because the action dissipates the recoil over a slightly longer period of time. Some shotguns manufactures even advertise this fact. This is a hotly contested and debated issue. The weight of the gun, and a lot of other factors come into play; getting a lot of trigger time is the best way to judge for yourself.




CONCLUSION:
When you combine all of these recoil reducing options, it's tough to argue that an average/strength/fitness sized adult can't handle the recoil of a 12 gauge. Having said all that, a 20gauge and even smaller .410 typically come in smaller and lighter varieties of the gun themselves; therefore making them much easier for some, especially smaller shooters to handle.

Minuteman said:

Great advice. Since this discussion is mostly coming down to recoil, I'd like to point out:

1- Recoil reducing stocks do work. They might not reduce by a lot, but even a 20-30% felt reduction in recoil can be considerable.

And recoil reducing butt pads, some really fancy ones out there now.

2- Recoil reducing shoulder pads. A couple years ago I tried Trap shooting, decided I would be shooting a lot and different shotguns. So I picked up one of these pads. It really did make training/trap shooting more comfortable.

Here's a newer type:

3- There are several brands of 'low recoil' shotgun shells. Some even say 'low noise', I haven't tried the low noise variety yet, but I know the lower recoil ones really are softer to shoot. I even picked up some 'tactical' shells that are only about an inch long, they are really soft shooting, and I can get a bunch more in my long tube. I recall during the USSS Firearms Instructors Training Course (FITC) I attended, we shot a few 'less lethal' 'bean bag' rounds, I could hardly feel any recoil at all. Granted, these light load shells might not function in many semi-auto shotguns, and won't have the terminal ballistics necessary for a self-defense confrontation - but they are still great for training and familiarization.

4- A semi automatic will have less recoil than any other type of shotgun, because the action dissipates the recoil over a slightly longer period of time. Some shotguns manufactures even advertise this fact. This is a hotly contested and debated issue. The weight of the gun, and a lot of other factors come into play; getting a lot of trigger time is the best way to judge for yourself.

CONCLUSION:
When you combine all of these recoil reducing options, it's tough to argue that an average/strength/fitness sized adult can't handle the recoil of a 12 gauge. Having said all that, a 20gauge and even smaller .410 typically come in smaller and lighter varieties of the gun themselves; therefore making them much easier for some, especially smaller shooters to handle.

Click to expand...

just be sure to practice a bit with those mini-shells. A lot of people have had a lot of feeding issues with them until they get the feel of how to pump them down. They generally work better if you don't give them a full stroke.

smokey0118 said:

you're going to want to switch to #1 buck, #4 buck at the smallest.

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Seems to me, I wear my bones inside my skin and flesh. To break bones the pellets have to rip through the flesh first. If even half the pellets (still more than200 in a 1 oz shell )get to penetrate skin and flesh, thats still a lot of drain holes.

In my house, I'd rather everything I shoot at an intruder, stays in the intruder. I have to fix the damage in the walls and I like my plaster the way it is.

Muggs said:

If even half the pellets (still more than200 in a 1 oz shell )get to penetrate skin and flesh, thats still a lot of drain holes.

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It that happens, you gave your intruder a bad case of road-rash.

'Holes' only count if something vital behind it gets shredded, be it heart, a large blood vessel, brain or spinal cord. Even a through-through involving the lungs is not incapacitating for several minutes, often hours.

12 GA no question!

Imagine looking down this:

20GA. COACHGUN MEETS THE KISS PRINCIAL.

I know this is in the "Shotgun" forum, but I voted Other and would recommend an AR if he can afford to spend up to $1000. Easier for smaller frames to shoot, plenty lethal, and much more fun to train with using full-power ammo than a 12-gauge loaded with 00. I can't speak for your friend or his wife, but I know that my wife prefers shooting my Glock 17 or my AR versus her 20-gauge with buckshot. If she enjoys shooting it, she's more likely to practice and practice is the most important factor.

I would recommend that your friend take his wife shooting and then ask her what SHE prefers.

Also, birdshot is for birds.

This will work. It is only a Single Barrel but fairly Large Caliber. Easy to Reload too...

Depends on the wife. Any lady can learn to handle 12, but not all feel comfortable with it. I still can't even get my better half to shoot centerfire. I would not expect her to be effective with a firearm she isn't willing to practice with.

20 all the way. I prefer pistols but unless both spouses are really good with handguns, the ideal would be at least one armed with a shotgun.

Just wanted to note all of the Recoil information really is irrelevant with regard to clothing because unless they break in in broad daylite you will be in your home more than likely sleeping, so I won't running to put on a shooting jacket... I am going with the His & Hers scenario...

Mossberg 500 within reach and G22 as a backup

TheGunnyRet said:

Just wanted to note all of the Recoil information really is irrelevant with regard to clothing because unless they break in in broad daylite you will be in your home more than likely sleeping, so I won't running to put on a shooting jacket... I am going with the His & Hers scenario...

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O-really? Some folks on this forum do everything - fully kitted out; including kitchen duties and sleeping.

Touché

smokey0118 said:

...

Of course this is until the youngin comes along...then accessibility to the guns will go down a bit as kid-safety becomes more of a factor. At that point the handgun goes into a quick-access box next to the bed and the rifles/shotgun gets clam-locked to a closet wall/ in the gun safe. They'll still be loaded up, but just locked up.

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That's where this might be handy:

V-Line Quick Access Keyless Shotgun Safe

My 12ga, Cletus, lives in mine.

Looks like 12 gauge won this poll.

Like Joe said, "double barrel shotgun"

870 20 gauge youth model. Shorter stock, they have a 24 inch barrel vent rib with choke tubes. Number 4 shot is good for home defense.

20x102mm double barrel. No screwing with actions that might not feed and once you've picked yourself up off the ground you can have an immediate follow-up shot in case you either

A) had a clean miss
B) intruder did not die of fright
C) did not kill yourself from recoil

Oh no!

Mossberg has a fatal flaw?!?

Can anyone verify or experienced this before?

I went looking at shotguns today, looked at several Mossberg models.