"Disapproved" for Hand Gun Purchase... Questions...

Yoboney · Feb 27, 2010

GBMaryland said:
Well, I called the Sgt. and go a little information... (now that it's clear I'm not a felon, he's certainly more than happy to talk to me -grin-)

1) His system shows the NJ statue that I was ORIGINALLY charged with, not what I was actually convicted of. (!?!?!?)

2) It appears that the court in New Jersey did not update the record to completely expunge the conviction. [Given what transpired in the court, which is a LONG story, this is actually not a suprise to me.]

3) MD lists the original crime I was charged with as something that you can jailed for up to 3 years for... Which is kidna funny, given that NJ considers it a minmum of 5 years. [We're talking about the original charges here, not what the DA lowered them to ("NJS 2C:33-2a(2) Improper behavior, a petty disorderly persons offense").

All of that being said, it was a case of mistaken identity... and it's been a PITA for 20 years. However, I'm still confused as no organization has EVER found this out during a background check. [The only ones that have are because I've personally provided the court documents...]

I wonder what new system has been put in place that suddenly started to show this out-dated information?

Anyway, I've called the firm that originally represented me, and told them that I don't care what it resonably costs, I want this taken care. (Which means that several thousand dollars from now it'll be resolved...)

That kind of stuff happens all the time. You should have checked on the information before trying to buy the gun. Now you need to get it fixed quickly or they could charge you with trying to buy a regulated firearm while being prohibited. Maryland is a mucked up State. Remember that and proceed accordingly.

GBMaryland · Feb 27, 2010

Yoboney said:
That kind of stuff happens all the time. You should have checked on the information before trying to buy the gun. Now you need to get it fixed quickly or they could charge you with trying to buy a regulated firearm while being prohibited. Maryland is a mucked up State. Remember that and proceed accordingly.

I've run seven background checks on myself in the past 24 hours.

NOT ONE OF THEM SHOWS THE ARREST IN NJ... PERIOD.

Maryland appears to be using some other background checking systems that was not in use previously.

I've bought DOZENS of firearms in the last 10 years, and several since moving to Maryland.

This happened 20 years ago, so the crime in question would have been sitting there waiting for any LEO to pull up during a background check.

I suspect that the Sgt. made a mistake, or that they've recently made signifcant changes to the system used for background checks.

It's NOT possible that someone suddenly just found this when every other check is completely clear, and has been for the last 16 years or so.

Yoboney · Feb 27, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I've run seven background checks on myself in the past 24 hours.

NOT ONE OF THEM SHOWS THE ARREST IN NJ... PERIOD.

Maryland appears to be using some other background checking systems that was not in use previously.

I've bought DOZENS of firearms in the last 10 years, and several since moving to Maryland.

This happened 20 years ago, so the crime in question would have been sitting there waiting for any LEO to pull up during a background check.

I suspect that the Sgt. made a mistake, or that they've recently made signifcant changes to the system used for background checks.

It's NOT possible that someone suddenly just found this when every other check is completely clear, and has been for the last 16 years.

You should get an FBI check and see what comes up. I did an internet check on myself and some checks have a speeding ticket from 20 years ago that happened in NC. So we all hav to watch those records and make sure they do their jobs because it can come back and bite you in the ass. :sad20:

I hope it all works out ok for you.

GBMaryland · Feb 27, 2010

I picked up the pistol today... All done on that end.

...and as for the FBI check, I'll have to see what that turns up.

MikeTF · Feb 27, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I picked up the pistol today... All done on that end.

...and as for the FBI check, I'll have to see what that turns up.

Glad it worked out, but what a PITA!

GBMaryland · Feb 27, 2010

MikeTF said:
Glad it worked out, but what a PITA!

The only thing I've got to check on is that I just got a letter in todays mail from a MDSP Lt. indicating that I've committed a felony by lieing on the application.

(Obviously, this is not true.)

And that I can contact an inspector to appeal this discission.

I'm starting to get annoyed.

Of course, I suspect that the Sgt. who straightened the purchase issue out, probably contacted everyone else up the chain, but I can't rely on that.

If I actually have to get a lawyer involved, I'm going to start sueing people.

novus collectus · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
The only thing I've got to check on is that I just got a letter in todays mail from a MDSP Lt. indicating that I've committed a felony by lieing on the application.

(Obviously, this is not true.)

And that I can contact an inspector to appeal this discission.

I'm starting to get annoyed.

Of course, I suspect that the Sgt. who straightened the purchase issue out, probably contacted everyone else up the chain, but I can't rely on that.

If I actually have to get a lawyer involved, I'm going to start sueing people.

The letter was sent out automatically, but if you call the sgt again he should straighten it out and send you another letter saying it was cleared up if you ask him to.
I believe there are actually two seperate divisisions in the MDSP involved in this, the ones who you get approved or disapproved from and who you appeal to, and the ones who investigate for prosecution the ones disapproved and who tried to get a transfer illegally. The ones investigating were propably notified immediately for the first disapproval and just finally got around to sending the letter you recieved but may have already since been notified of the mistake. They however may not send a correction letter to you and you may have to go through the first division for a confirmation by mail everything is ok.

GBMaryland · Feb 28, 2010

novus collectus said:
The letter was sent out automatically, but if you call the sgt again he should straighten it out and send you another letter saying it was cleared up if you ask him to.
I believe there are actually two seperate divisisions in the MDSP involved in this, the ones who you get approved or disapproved from and who you appeal to, and the ones who investigate for prosecution the ones disapproved and who tried to get a transfer illegally. The ones investigating were propably notified immediately for the first disapproval and just finally got around to sending the letter you recieved but may have already since been notified of the mistake. They however may not send a correction letter to you and you may have to go through the first division for a confirmation by mail everything is ok.

I think the letters were actually sent on the same day or within hours of each other, as they were both dated on the day. It's unlikely that any followup letters would have time to get here. The question is if they'll automatically do all of the followup between the two divisions. Truthfully, based on how efficient the Sgt was, I'll be surprised if they don't talk to each other, etc.

Anyway, I figured I'd be polite and nice to begin with...

I do consider it a requirement to get it in writing that I'm completely cleared, as the second letter indicates:

1) That I've committed perjury by lying on the form [not true]
2) That they've decided to not charge me at this time
3) That an "Inspector" has been assigned to the case.
4) That I'm not permitted to own firearms in the State of Maryland

It's fairly disconcerting, especially given that it's based false information...

BTW:

The crime that I was not convicted of in NJ was the same statute as littering. This issue is that the equivalent crime in Maryland is a 3 year "misdemeanor," which confuses the hell out of me.

When I went back to pick up the pistol, the guys at the store showed be a new version of the "application" form, which has a section covering the "have you be convicted of a crime that is a felony in Maryland" that is about 4 times larger... and it clarifies the question substantially.

I suspect the MDSP has been having a good number of problems related to this specific question, as no one in their right mind would even suspect that a misdemeanor in another state would be more of a felony in another state.

(In my case though, it appears that littering is a crime of violence based on the wording.)

Splitter · Feb 28, 2010

Let us know when the SWAT team arrives

. Lock up your dogs first. Then sue the pants off 'em

.

Seriously f-ed up situation.

Splitter

Yoboney · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I think the letters were actually sent on the same day or within hours of each other, as they were both dated on the day. It's unlikely that any followup letters would have time to get here. The question is if they'll automatically do all of the followup between the two divisions. Truthfully, based on how efficient the Sgt was, I'll be surprised if they don't talk to each other, etc.

Anyway, I figured I'd be polite and nice to begin with...

I do consider it a requirement to get it in writing that I'm completely cleared, as the second letter indicates:

1) That I've committed perjury by lying on the form [not true]
2) That they've decided to not charge me at this time
3) That an "Inspector" has been assigned to the case.
4) That I'm not permitted to own firearms in the State of Maryland

It's fairly disconcerting, especially given that it's based false information...

BTW:

The crime that I was not convicted of in NJ was the same statute as littering. This issue is that the equivalent crime in Maryland is a 3 year "misdemeanor," which confuses the hell out of me.

When I went back to pick up the pistol, the guys at the store showed be a new version of the "application" form, which has a section covering the "have you be convicted of a crime that is a felony in Maryland" that is about 4 times larger... and it clarifies the question substantially.

I suspect the MDSP has been having a good number of problems related to this specific question, as no one in their right mind would even suspect that a misdemeanor in another state would be more of a felony in another state.

(In my case though, it appears that littering is a crime of violence based on the wording.)

This issue will have to be resolved or you could get charged. As I have staed before, "Maryland is a mucked up state". :lol:

So make sure you resolve the issue in Jersey and follow up on the issue in Maryland.Or the ag office will be trying to prosecute you. Maryland is very gun ho on gun crimes so cover your six quickly in writing.Contact that Sgt you talked to and make sure everything is ok. I have seen many cases like this where they do indeed prosecute people even though they should not do so. Then the victims have to pay into the system. Good luck with this issue.

RetNavyHD · Feb 28, 2010

Yoboney said:
You should get an FBI check and see what comes up. I did an internet check on myself and some checks have a speeding ticket from 20 years ago that happened in NC. So we all hav to watch those records and make sure they do their jobs because it can come back and bite you in the ass. I hope it all works out ok for you.

And how do you go about getting an FBI check completed to see whats on your record?

Thanks

GBMaryland · Feb 28, 2010

RetNavyHD said:
And how do you go about getting an FBI check completed to see whats on your record?

Thanks

http://www.ehow.com/how_5695579_request-fbi-background-check.html

MikeTF · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I think the letters were actually sent on the same day or within hours of each other, as they were both dated on the day. It's unlikely that any followup letters would have time to get here. The question is if they'll automatically do all of the followup between the two divisions. Truthfully, based on how efficient the Sgt was, I'll be surprised if they don't talk to each other, etc.

Anyway, I figured I'd be polite and nice to begin with...

I do consider it a requirement to get it in writing that I'm completely cleared, as the second letter indicates:

1) That I've committed perjury by lying on the form [not true]
2) That they've decided to not charge me at this time
3) That an "Inspector" has been assigned to the case.
4) That I'm not permitted to own firearms in the State of Maryland

It's fairly disconcerting, especially given that it's based false information...

BTW:

The crime that I was not convicted of in NJ was the same statute as littering. This issue is that the equivalent crime in Maryland is a 3 year "misdemeanor," which confuses the hell out of me.

When I went back to pick up the pistol, the guys at the store showed be a new version of the "application" form, which has a section covering the "have you be convicted of a crime that is a felony in Maryland" that is about 4 times larger... and it clarifies the question substantially.

I suspect the MDSP has been having a good number of problems related to this specific question, as no one in their right mind would even suspect that a misdemeanor in another state would be more of a felony in another state.

(In my case though, it appears that littering is a crime of violence based on the wording.)

Unbelievable (well, unless you live in MD). I can't tell you how sad it is that our tax dollars and your time is being wasted on this. I hope this PITA situation gets resolved quickly.

GONZOtheMAN · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5695579_request-fbi-background-check.html

This is equivalent to the standard firearm purchase (rifle/shotgun)?

GBMaryland · Feb 28, 2010

MikeTF said:
Unbelievable (well, unless you live in MD). I can't tell you how sad it is that our tax dollars and your time is being wasted on this. I hope this PITA situation gets resolved quickly.

This is a difficult situation, as it appears that part of the blame lay with New Jersey, for not properly clearing my record as they were instructed.

The other part of the issue is that Maryland is equating the Petty Disorderly Persons Offense from New Jersey (of which I was never convicted) with some other, much more serious, crime in the Maryland statutes.

It's not costing too much in the way of tax payer dollar yet... but if I have to I will sue the State and EVERY LEO (except the one Sgt.) involved personally.

Since I also work for the State, I'm familiar with how this works... They are only covered provided they themselves haven't engauged in criminal misconduct. I'm going to send them a letter stating that I require a letter back indicating that:

"this issue is:

1) Completely resolved
2) I did not purjer myself when I filled out the "Application to Purchase a Regulated Firearm"
3) That I am permitted to own firearms in the State of Maryland at the time of this [the] letter"

If they don't retract the accusiation, then I will bring suit against the MDSP.

The good news is that I can easily afford it, and I have the will to do so.

At that point it's going to get very expensive for the State, and be a significant drain on an already strapped budget.

Personally, I'm hoping that they follow through and the letters are already in the mail. That would be best for everyone involved.

GBMaryland · Feb 28, 2010

GONZOtheMAN said:
This is equivalent to the standard firearm purchase (rifle/shotgun)?

I really don't know. I assume so.

No purchase by me of ANY firearm for the last 20 years has had a hickup.

The only reason I can assume that this one did is that a LEO looked at the NJ statute and determined that it was the equivalent of a "3 year misdemeanor" in MD.

Littering in NJ = Violent crime in MD

I, for one, thought that the textbook definitation of a misdemeanor was anything for which you could be sentanced for a term of more than 1 year in prison.

Yoboney · Feb 28, 2010

RetNavyHD said:
And how do you go about getting an FBI check completed to see whats on your record?

Thanks

You can download the form from the FBI site so you can look at your file. You can also get a background check from the State and see what shows up. I see may young people get into fights in other states and not realize that this will give them a "prohibited" status in Maryland. All incidents must be expunged and you have to stay on the leo agencies to comply. The records checks are normally less than fifty dollars total.

Yoboney · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I really don't know. I assume so.

No purchase by me of ANY firearm for the last 20 years has had a hickup.

The only reason I can assume that this one did is that a LEO looked at the NJ statute and determined that it was the equivalent of a "3 year misdemeanor" in MD.

Littering in NJ = Violent crime in MD

I, for one, thought that the textbook definitation of a misdemeanor was anything for which you could be sentanced for a term of more than 1 year in prison.

So we know it wasn't littering. What was the charge? A three year charge will get the AG office a "hard on" for you. Until you get that fixed you are in danger of prosecution. Remember, Martha went to jail for lying..nothing else. So be careful taking to government. Get that charge expunged asap and be cautious as to how you proceed.

novus collectus · Feb 28, 2010

GBMaryland said:
I really don't know. I assume so.

No purchase by me of ANY firearm for the last 20 years has had a hickup.

The only reason I can assume that this one did is that a LEO looked at the NJ statute and determined that it was the equivalent of a "3 year misdemeanor" in MD.

Littering in NJ = Violent crime in MD

I, for one, thought that the textbook definitation of a misdemeanor was anything for which you could be sentanced for a term of more than 1 year in prison.

Definition of misdemanor and felony varies from state to state. In MD there is at least one crime I know of that carries ten years max but is only a misdemeanor.
This is why fed law says the only misdemeanors which count for making someone a prohibitted person are DV misdemeanors and someone convicted of a state misdemeanor that carries more than two years.

GBMaryland · Feb 28, 2010

Yoboney said:
So we know it wasn't littering. What was the charge? A three year charge will get the AG office a "hard on" for you. Until you get that fixed you are in danger of prosecution. Remember, Martha went to jail for lying..nothing else. So be careful taking to government. Get that charge expunged asap and be cautious as to how you proceed.

While looking this up for you, I determined that I've been making a mistake.

It appears that the crime I was charged with is a 30 day maximum sentence in a county jail, and up to a $500.00 fine.

"2C:33-2a(2) Improper behavior, a petty disorderly persons offense"

Littering is the same statue violation...

Honestly, I'm looking at the court paperwork, and there is NO description on the charge. I was able to find this:

http://essexcountynjcriminalattorneys.wordpress.com/about/disorderly-conduct-n-j-s-a-2c33-2/

Years later, looking at the requirements for a conviction, there really was no way to convict me. I wasn't a danger to anyone else, I was in no way threatening, there was no one else present, let along that the guy didn't have probable cause to pull me over in the first place. [Mistook me for someone else...]

I'm really finding it odd that MD could equate an offense carrying a max of 30 days in the can to a 3 year misdemeanor.

(I know... I know... but it's really hard to equate one state's misdemeanor to what is effectively a felony in all by name in MD.)

I would have to say that having the knife in the car with no one around would be a "hazardous" condition. I dunno.

"Disapproved" for Hand Gun Purchase... Questions...

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