Norman v. State (FL) Open Carry lawsuit

wolfwood · Mar 25, 2016

Well there position is certainly the historically correct position. I doubt that position will ultimately prevail due to Florida being shall issue but I am really excited for them. I am also excited about their long arm argument.

777GSOTB · Mar 29, 2016

press1280 said:
Looks like it http://wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/

Thanks for the heads up on that...I'll be listening to that for sure. Here are some of the beautifully made points in Norman's reply:

"Both of the parties conceded below that carrying a concealed firearm was a privilege and that the right to bear arms outside the home is fundamental. No other fundamental right is subject to licensing before exercise of the right is allowed in a lawful time, place, and manner."

"The abrogation of a fundamental right until one has gone through an approved procedure to obtain the right, is a denial of substantive due process rights."

"The right to bear arms is the right to an effective means of self defense. The right to carry openly has always been viewed as the protected expression of that right."

"No tax, training, or application is required to exercise any other right in the Declaration of Rights or the Bill of Rights. The right to bear arms should be no different."

fightinbluhen51 · Mar 30, 2016

777GSOTB said:
Thanks for the heads up on that...I'll be listening to that for sure. Here are some of the beautifully made points in Norman's reply:

"Both of the parties conceded below that carrying a concealed firearm was a privilege and that the right to bear arms outside the home is fundamental. No other fundamental right is subject to licensing before exercise of the right is allowed in a lawful time, place, and manner."

"The abrogation of a fundamental right until one has gone through an approved procedure to obtain the right, is a denial of substantive due process rights."

"The right to bear arms is the right to an effective means of self defense. The right to carry openly has always been viewed as the protected expression of that right."

"No tax, training, or application is required to exercise any other right in the Declaration of Rights or the Bill of Rights. The right to bear arms should be no different."

There is a reason this case has wound on for three years. My guess, it will wind on for another 3 before it is said and done.

Quite frankly, the open vs. permitted concealed question is quite possibly the best question to ask SCOTUS. It boils it down into simplistic terms of one question: Does the 2A apply outside the home to bearing arms, without a permit, to handguns, for self defense.

wolfwood · Apr 10, 2016

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/files/nra-motion.pdf
NRA and Everytown are both filing amicus briefs

press1280 · Apr 10, 2016

wolfwood said:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/files/nra-motion.pdf
NRA and Everytown are both filing amicus briefs

Maybe this will convince some folks that the NRA doesn't hate open carry.

777GSOTB · Apr 11, 2016

press1280 said:
Maybe this will convince some folks that the NRA doesn't hate open carry.

Yeah, the NRA is all for open carry...Yet, not a one case have they brought up in 8 yrs since Heller. And as far as not " hating open carry "...I bet their position on open carry includes a license.

By the way, how can the government compel someone to enter into a contract/license in the exercise of a right?....The application that one signs for the license is the contract, just in case you don't understand.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

LICENSE, contracts. A right given by some competent authority to do an act, which without such authority would be illegal. The instrument or writing which secures this right, is also called a license. Vide Ayl. Parerg, 353; 15 Vin. Ab. 92; Ang. Wat. Co. 61, 85.

wolfwood · Apr 12, 2016

777GSOTB said:
Yeah, the NRA is all for open carry...Yet, not a one case have they brought up in 8 yrs since Heller. And as far as not " hating open carry "...I bet their position on open carry includes a license.

By the way, how can the government compel someone to enter into a contract/license in the exercise of a right?....The application that one signs for the license is the contract, just in case you don't understand.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

LICENSE, contracts. A right given by some competent authority to do an act, which without such authority would be illegal. The instrument or writing which secures this right, is also called a license. Vide Ayl. Parerg, 353; 15 Vin. Ab. 92; Ang. Wat. Co. 61, 85.

to be far they have only brought one carry case total
that being Peruta
they did bring the 18-20 year old carry case in McCraw but that had nothing to do with carry and everything to do with age bans.

Southwest Chuck · Apr 12, 2016

wolfwood said:
to be far they have only brought one carry case total
that being Peruta
they did bring the 18-20 year old carry case in McCraw but that had nothing to do with carry and everything to do with age bans.

To be a little fairer, They didn't actually / initially "bring" Peruta. They joined the case after it was clear that Peruta's original attorney was way over his head, if my recollection is correct.

press1280 · Apr 15, 2016

777GSOTB said:
Yeah, the NRA is all for open carry...Yet, not a one case have they brought up in 8 yrs since Heller. And as far as not " hating open carry "...I bet their position on open carry includes a license.

By the way, how can the government compel someone to enter into a contract/license in the exercise of a right?....The application that one signs for the license is the contract, just in case you don't understand.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary

LICENSE, contracts. A right given by some competent authority to do an act, which without such authority would be illegal. The instrument or writing which secures this right, is also called a license. Vide Ayl. Parerg, 353; 15 Vin. Ab. 92; Ang. Wat. Co. 61, 85.

Open carry and licensing are two distinct issues. The NRA has been a huge boost in states going Constitutional Carry this year. They're not going after licensing right now because realistically, the courts aren't going to toss those requirements(right now at least) no matter how much you or I don't approve.

press1280 · Jun 7, 2016

Reminder orals will be tomorrow at 9AM link here: http://wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/

777GSOTB · Jun 8, 2016

Wow, woulda missed that. Thanks! Orals for Norman start at 10:00am.

press1280 · Jun 8, 2016

777GSOTB said:
Wow, woulda missed that. Thanks! Orals for Norman start at 10:00am.

Sorry about that. Some other case is on now.

press1280 · Jun 8, 2016

It's on now

Campfire · Jun 8, 2016

Fun watching that. State argument is such a far cry from NY, NJ, CT, MD etc.

press1280 · Jun 8, 2016

press1280 said:
It's on now

Just finished. I thought the state's defense of the OC ban was simply pathetic. It literally was "because the legislature said so." Most of the court seems like they are trying whatever they can to uphold the law even though the state's defense was virtually non existent and said that felons and other disqualified individuals would carry if the ban were struck down.

777GSOTB · Jun 8, 2016

press1280 said:
Sorry about that. Some other case is on now.

Geees, they started early and I missed the ABOUT 10am time...I thought the scheduling was pretty precise?...My luck.

State has no clue what their compelling interest is in regulating open carry...People will be frightened, was about best they could do.

Will they post up the audio/video in a few days?...Would like to see/hear Friday's arguments.

press1280 · Jun 8, 2016

777GSOTB said:
Geees, they started early and I missed the ABOUT 10am time...I thought the scheduling was pretty precise?...My luck.

State has no clue what their compelling interest is in regulating open carry...People will be frightened, was about best they could do.

Will they post up the audio/video in a few days?...Would like to see/hear Friday's arguments.

Already there: http://wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/viewcase.php?eid=2364

press1280 · Jun 12, 2016

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/stat...s-34c7dfd1-0969-3091-e053-0100-382245221.html

Norman's attorney expecting an opinion in 3-6 months, seems rather quick unless their Supremes are statutorily held to a time limit.

777GSOTB · Jun 15, 2016

press1280 said:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/stat...s-34c7dfd1-0969-3091-e053-0100-382245221.html

Norman's attorney expecting an opinion in 3-6 months, seems rather quick unless their Supremes are statutorily held to a time limit.

Hopefully it takes the full 6mos...He'll be appealing to the SCOTUS and we need another appointment on our side.

wjackcooper · Mar 2, 2017

Ban on open carry stands:

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/decisions/2017/sc15-650.pdf

Regards
Jack

Norman v. State (FL) Open Carry lawsuit

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