mtm1974
Member
Only 11 Days to Christmas and 18 Days until another online system! Maybe we will have a Xmas miracle and the system will work as designed!
MSP 77r e-portal goes live 1-1-17
- Thread starter swinokur
- Start date
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i assume that is what will happen. the portal should only give back asterisks so what you type isn't visible.
basscat
Ultimate Member
- Jul 23, 2012
- 1,397
Lets all get real for a moment. If you think this system was designed to make it easier, more efficient for us you are sadly mistaken. This is a way to more efficiently track people's purchases. They are lost with all the paper 77Rs and couldn't possibly track all of them. Half of them are probably lost or damaged. Now they will have everyone's email addresses. Something they didnt have before. You can call it "tin hat" if you want but remember, they are " the government". Sort of makes that HPRB sign in sheet look insignificant dont it?
Don't you need an email address to apply for an HQL?
basscat
Ultimate Member
- Jul 23, 2012
- 1,397
Not sure but never needed one a 77r. Until now.
i checked, you don't but they have your mailing address in the HQL database
kalister1
R.I.P.
As far as the waiting period: Anything over the mandatory 7-8 day wait is NOT Maryland LAW! Please, do NOT blame this on the State. Maryland Law allows the dealer to release after the mandatory wait. If you have a handgun waiting longer than that, you picked the wrong dealer.
How is this helping One Gun a Month?
chesapeakeIRON
Ultimate Member
Yeah I hear you, that would be very dumb and I though it was dumb for all these years
well then this means the 7 day wait should decrease
chesapeakeIRON
Ultimate Member
Ill agree with you on this, I remember during that rush there MSP held a meeting telling FFLS to release firearms after 7-8 days
I'm not defending MSP's apparent lack of a plan for inclusion for all citizens, but it isn't impossible to get an email address and a credit card.
1.You can go to a library and create a free Gmail, Yahoo or Hotmail account.
2.You can get a prepaid CC.
So while not very convenient, it's not impossible.
1.You can go to a library and create a free Gmail, Yahoo or Hotmail account.
2.You can get a prepaid CC.
So while not very convenient, it's not impossible.
Sort of incorrect. The reason so many dealers didn't do timely release during the surge of 2013 was LIABILITY. The MLFDA filed a lawsuit to allow timely release. MSP was forced to admit that in the event a prohibited person was sold a firearm the FFL would not be charged with releasing a firearm prior to the completion of a 77R. Some dealers where doing a linited timely release to Law Enforcement, frequent customers, and those with a copy of a Not Dissaporoved 77R dated within the previous 90 days. Once MSP admitted and accepted liabilty for firearms released during their failure to timely process paperwork within the MD 7 day waiting period most dealers began timely releaser after 7 days.
Prior to the lawsuit and this finding MSP LD informed dealers that they would be charged in the event of a regulated firearm being released to a prohibited person.
kalister1
R.I.P.
Just what is NOT correct? Does the Law require dealers to hold the gun or NOT!
Highlighted MOST, so you do agree that NOT all dealers did in the past or do now. So I stand on my statement, If your dealer does NOT release per the law, it's on him. The law is / was clear, there is and never was a requirement for the dealer to wait on the MSP.
Who filed that Lawsuit?
Last edited:
pop-gunner
Ultimate Member
- May 8, 2008
- 2,272
You're right. The law is clear. It says the dealer MAY release. It does not say they have to. Since it's the dealers ass on the line cut them some slack.
Jack McCauley
Active Member
- Oct 16, 2014
- 193
When the MSP Licensing Division first began missing the 7 day deadline for a background check in 2013, there was quite a bit of confusion as to what could and could not be done by the dealers. I was on a group phone call with the ATF and the FBI regarding this issue. The ATF's attorney took a stance that under federal law, a firearm could not be released without a nics check, regardless of the timeline. The MD Attorney General said under Maryland law, a firearm could be released without the completed background check on the 8th day. In a follow-up conversation with an attorney for the FBI, I was told the gun could be released without a NICS check and the ATF attorney was wrong. So I started a written dialogue to get a firm response in writing. It was at that point, both attorneys refused to answer me and stopped accepting my calls. I retired shortly thereafter. Months later, the MSP would be notified by the ATF that a firearms sale could not be held up because a state agency couldn't complete the background check, including the NICS check. It took a while before any dealer became brave enough to start releasing guns. And even after the MSP told them it was not against the law, some dealers still wouldn't release firearms. So to respond to your statement, you are a little bit inaccurate with your statement. The law "was" not clear at one point in time. It is clear now. But five years later, maybe a new group of attorneys would access the situation differently.
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The law doesn't require it. Just as the law doesn't require AR-15 lowers to have a 77R. However when the State Police threaten you with arrest you tend to comply. Why you say? Because they're the State Police and an indictment means that an FFL gets shut down. The law is clear but that doesn't mean you won't get arrested, charged, and your assets seized. Think I'm wrong? Just listen to MSI's testimony regarding CCW restrictions.
Jack McCauley
Active Member
- Oct 16, 2014
- 193
I would suggest you are wrong. The MSP never had much of a problem with the MAFSS system. Your paper application was stored in a file cabinet until it was entered as a final sale in the MAFSS system. Then it was placed in a filing cabinet in an often flooded basement where the moisture would cause many of the applications to stick together like they had been glued.
Yes. This will make it slightly easier to track your purchase. But not much of a difference there. The data was already entered before a paper application was permanently filed in the basement.
Picture this;
300 to 600 paper 77rs plus additional paperwork totaling 6 to 9 pages, coming across one fax machine per day. The machine would get overheated and break down constantly. All those papers had to be sorted, filed, checked for accuracy, entered for billing, unstapled, hand stamped, signed, faxed back, stapled again, filed again, unfiled and additional info added once the dealer released the firearm, and all information entered into MAFFs. Quality control checks made and then filed again. All the billing and checks received was a full time job for two people that one amazing clerk did by herself.
Now some of those were illegible, data was entered wrong, secondary checks had to be made and so on.
The electronic form eliminates many many man hours, confusion, illegible documents, damaged paperwork, broken fax machines. This creates a much more efficient system. It saves tons of headaches and will help prevent a backlog of checks from happening in the future.
I worked with these troopers at Licensing. They don't have a conspiracy to track your gun purchases. They want a better, more efficient way to do their job, using equipment and methods that meet the standards of todays' technology.
And since I was begging for automation and funding for this, I am pretty confident I know why this 77r electronic form was created. I don't think I am sadly mistaken.
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Jack McCauley
Active Member
- Oct 16, 2014
- 193
I believe this system opens the door for one of two things to occur;
1) A successful court challenge to the 7 day wait
Or
2) A change in legislation.
We have been told the purpose of the 7 day wait is for a "cooling off period." The real reason is the MSP couldn't process the apps any quicker than 7 days when this law first went into effect. I was told this directly from the author of the original gun safety act of 1994. But, if MD lawmakers still want to stick with the concept of a cooling off period, the idea doesn't hold water since the hql became law. If you have an hql, you are pretty cooled off. In fact, up to 30 days cooled off. The 9th Circuit overturned a similar cooling off period for the same reasons in California. Their version if the HQL eliminated a wait to purchase.
One gun a month rule is waived for anyone who applies for a collectors status. We have been round robin again and again and the AG has determined that everyone is eligible for this collector status if they "apply." The only requirement is that you apply. This electronic system could make that application be a checked box as soon as you create an account. Becoming a designated collector would be simple.
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basscat
Ultimate Member
- Jul 23, 2012
- 1,397
With all due respect Jack, I think you just made my point. Everything you just stated benefits Lic division and not the end user, which is us. Granted, it will save time,energy, man hours, etc.. for lic division employes but how will this new system help the buyer? Still the seven day wait, still 2 trips to the dealer, still the same info to fill out. Now your adding an email requirement and a cc payment where the dealer always took care of it not to mention the possibility of computer failure, hacking, etc. It may work out fine but I'll reserve judgement for now.
There is a unique code for each transfer?
I would expect most people will not fill out the form online BEFORE going to the gun shop or gun show. Some will, but most won't.
Is it going to work out for the Transferee to do everything at the Shop/Show?
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