Howard County Fairgrounds July 14-15

StantonCree · Jul 16, 2018

FFBWMD said:
Here's a novel idea for all the experts out there, go out and put on your own gun show. Dont charge admission, and tell all the vendors what they can sell their wares for$. Have fun!

Thats great and all and I'll specifically respond to you because of my comments on the previous page.

I could just be the current gun show model, lack of advertising, or what-have-you but from a logistics stand point can you explain to me why as a consumer I would want to drive from Silver Spring to the show to pay MSRP from a vendor? At a location where I'm supposed to feel like I'm getting deal?

I've never seen a customer complaint about South Carroll and i applaud you for that. I've seen nothing but happy customers especially the C&R guys but unfortunately you and your shop (to include a couple other IP's here) are a dying breed and that is reflected at these shows. Again no dog in the C&R price complaints as I know these things have only been going up in value, and I understand that but is it really unrealistic to think the average show goers frustration with these shows over other shops prices is unwarranted?

IP's here generally get my business and I'll call my IP and ask if he can get something before i buy online but $400 for a Maverick 88 and $600 Sub2K is disheartening so while you may be a fantastic FFL (and I do believe that to be the case based on your reputation) you need to understand from a consumer standpoint that I am not paying to walk around and look at overpriced items when I can not pay to view very fairly priced items (at my IP and potentially your shop).

Not trying to be an ass from my comments and as I said before I understand you guys gotta eat trust me I do! I regularly consign guns at my shop and make a purchase almost everytime I walk in, refer customers there on a regular basis, and routinely brag about them here.

DopplerOctopus · Jul 16, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Dealers who cheat their customers with fraudulent items, sell counterfeit goods, or sell products with known flaws are “ripping people off”.

Let’s just get that straight.

Very true, we should just call it "charging a convenience fee" then. That's more technically correct.

You are also correct about Capitalism, it's working as intended and that's why Gun Shows are losing 50%+ attendance over years past.

I can see an argument for a convenience fee due to somebody wanting a a specific gun, right here-right now, but there is a very fine threshold that people are willing to pay for that "convenience" and I think sellers may be missing that mark.

Everyone wants to and has the right to make as much money on their product as they can but they have to understand if I, the consumer, can wait a week for this new production in stock firearm there is no reason to pay a 10 to 15% premium on it.

Heck, I went to the show and dropped $700 in cash for an nice Arisaka, a M24/47, some surplus 8mm Mauser and 2 rifle cases, so I'm not sitting here complaining from the nose bleeds.

I got to a lot of shows being a C&R guy, but as said before, my type of people are just there looking for 1 or 2 specific items to fill in gaps and I have a feeling at some point all that will be left at these shows are dudes with for sale signs in the barrels of deer rifles, Chinese knives from amazon, and $800 entry level AR15s.

FFBWMD · Jul 16, 2018

mpdc4511 said:
Thats great and all and I'll specifically respond to you because of my comments on the previous page.

I could just be the current gun show model, lack of advertising, or what-have-you but from a logistics stand point can you explain to me why as a consumer I would want to drive from Silver Spring to the show to pay MSRP from a vendor? At a location where I'm supposed to feel like I'm getting deal?

I've never seen a customer complaint about South Carroll and i applaud you for that. I've seen nothing but happy customers especially the C&R guys but unfortunately you and your shop (to include a couple other IP's here) are a dying breed and that is reflected at these shows. Again no dog in the C&R price complaints as I know these things have only been going up in value, and I understand that but is it really unrealistic to think the average show goers frustration with these shows over other shops prices is unwarranted?

IP's here generally get my business and I'll call my IP and ask if he can get something before i buy online but $400 for a Maverick 88 and $600 Sub2K is disheartening so while you may be a fantastic FFL (and I do believe that to be the case based on your reputation) you need to understand from a consumer standpoint that I am not paying to walk around and look at overpriced items when I can not pay to view very fairly priced items (at my IP and potentially your shop).

Not trying to be an ass from my comments and as I said before I understand you guys gotta eat trust me I do! I regularly consign guns at my shop and make a purchase almost everytime I walk in, refer customers there on a regular basis, and routinely brag about them here.

So "At a location where your supposed to feel like i"m getting a deal"?, I must have missed that part when i signed up to do the show.

$400 Mavericks and $600 Sub2k's were NOT at my table,in fact Sub2k at my table were $475.00 (below MSRP!)

Rack&Roll · Jul 16, 2018

DopplerOctopus said:
Very true, we should just call it "charging a convenience fee" then. That's more technically correct.

You are also correct about Capitalism, it's working as intended and that's why Gun Shows are losing 50%+ attendance over years past....

The arrival of the internet as competition, along with the fun associated with the Peak Gun Show era having disappeared, and yes, attendance is slipping.

There’s a reason that, in 2018, the wildly successful Blockbuster chain is down to ONE store in Bend, Oregon is a function of Peak Video Discs being in the rear view mirror.

pbharvey · Jul 16, 2018

I bought this at a gun show in North Carolina last month. AR500 steel, greased bearings, super nice guy who makes them along with a bunch of other active steel stuff. I can think of zero places I can touch and feel something like this except at a gun show.
I like gun stuff more than guns themselves at gun shows. I’m not always in the market for a gun and I am always in the market for gun stuff.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 16, 2018

I go to gun shows usually without a specific item in mind . My intrests are eclectic, but generally run to the older, unusual, and unique , at a price that is both decent for what it is , and appropriate to my current cash flow . When I see somthing interesting to me , I'll know it . And I can see a lot more potential items at a show , than making a road trip on purpose to hit a half dozen decent LGS at their places of business

If my interests ran to the same old , same old , popular models of newly mfg'ed , they are almost a fungible commodity . ( Almost. I still want to go hands on with the actual item , even multiple if there are multiple of same thing on the table .)

*****************

R&R was right in identifying the particular era that is on the way out . But before that that had been the granddaddy of Golden Ages , the mid '50s to late '70s , with all the WW II era and earlier being dirt cheap .

jr88 · Jul 16, 2018

The whole idea of Gun Show is being lost. When I was a young man just getting into hunting and shooting a lot of the appeal was to get together with some buddies, go somewhere with like minded individuals and browse. We would make a day of it, shoot the breeze and usually find a few things to purchase. Fast forward to the days of information overload where one can check Slick-guns, Ammoseek and google the price on anything from a 22 rifle to a machine gun...walking around a hall where you have already seen everything there online doesn't seem as appealing, especially when you can probably buy it online cheaper.
We need to keep a healthy group of firearms dealers in Maryland. Imagine a scenario like DC, all the pretty internet sites won't mean much if there is no local FFL in business to deal with. I also agree the local shows have declined by failing to evolve. If Frank reads this forum, here are a few suggestions:
1) Where is the advertising ? I go to GUNSHOWUSA.COM to look for shows in the area, I have never seen a SGS show listed.
2) With all the empty tables and space, why not offer SOME Tables (depending on availability) at a reduced rate ($25 Day) for us hobbyist to sell/swap parts, optics, firearms related items.
3) Cut the show dates down by about 25%...Fewer hopefully better quality shows.
4) Ban the practice of people walking around with a long gun for sale (Sale sign sticking out of barrel) Let them rent a table !
5) Limit the number of tables selling all the Chinese junk accessories. I would rather see a flea-market type table with grips,barrels, used-scopes etc. than cheap junk.

jr88 · Jul 16, 2018

pbharvey said:
I bought this at a gun show in North Carolina last month. AR500 steel, greased bearings, super nice guy who makes them along with a bunch of other active steel stuff. I can think of zero places I can touch and feel something like this except at a gun show.
I like gun stuff more than guns themselves at gun shows. I’m not always in the market for a gun and I am always in the market for gun stuff.

Exactly ! That looks really well made, I would buy one !

Anotherpyr · Jul 16, 2018

For gun shows to work, everyone needs to win. The producer needs to make a profit after renting the site, the sellers need to make a profit after paying for a table and covering time and transportation costs, and the buyer’s need a reason to pay to enter and buy, buy, buy.

I go to the Silverado shows even if I don’t buy anything to at least support the shows. Sometimes I buy but more often than not I don’t. It depends what I see and if I’m after anything. Yes there was definitely one vendor at the Ho Co show whose prices were high compared to anything I’ve seen elsewhere.

It’s hard to compete with the internet because that is a low overhead business. Warehouse space is less than retail space per square foot. Computers charge less than employees to deal with customers.

Rebel59 · Jul 16, 2018

jr88 said:
4) Ban the practice of people walking around with a long gun for sale (Sale sign sticking out of barrel) Let them rent a table !

Yes... I'm guilty of this, but I also have money in my pocket and up until lately rarely leave empty handed. This would be one more reason for me not to bother.

kalister1 · Jul 16, 2018

Less people attend, less vendors show up. So in turn less people attend......

Gun shows do not give the people what they want so they stop coming, who do you want to blame?

rbird7282 · Jul 16, 2018

I’ve been to the Howard County show twice over 20 years. The last time the only thing I got was custom made earplugs. Everything else can be had cheaper elsewhere. Usually I’m looking for extra mags anyway so anything in MD is a waste of time, I go to Chantilly and I’m done.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rack&Roll · Jul 16, 2018

Banning “walk-around” private gun sellers is a non-starter because there are many people (me included) willing to spend the time and money to attend a gun show because there’s a chance a private seller will ALSO have what I am looking for.

I agree that fewer gun shows might also please a significant number of vendors, who have told me they feel pressured to buy into the current schedule because they will lose traditional table placement by skipping shows occasionally.

lee2 · Jul 16, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Banning “walk-around” private gun sellers is a non-starter because there are many people (me included) willing to spend the time and money to attend a gun show because there’s a chance a private seller will ALSO have what I am looking for.

I agree that fewer gun shows might also please a significant number of vendors, who have told me they feel pressured buy into the current schedule because they will lose traditional table placement by skipping shows occasionally.

Well said.

Alphabrew · Jul 16, 2018

One thing that’s clear from some of the comments is that vendors at the gun show should not be offering stuff that’s available cheaply online. In fact don’t even bring that chit to the show. Focus on stuff that can’t be found online, or stuff that people want to fondle before they purchase (like LE trade stuff). A good example of both is the stuff SCSG was selling.

Also, maybe the vendors shouldn’t worry about catering to the bargain hunters that they won’t make any money on anyways and focus on selling cool stuff at fair prices.

TexDefender · Jul 16, 2018

Personally, I think if you could get fewer shows, with more tables, would be better. Especially during the period when tax returns are being sent out. That is when I have the most funds to expend. Additionally, maybe an area were private gun sellers could gather would be an option, say price of admission plus 5 bucks. I personally go for the history and to pickup things I couldn't find when I was collect WWII firearms.

lee2 · Jul 16, 2018

I have been on the other side of the table many times and have taken the time to show someone an item only to have them low ball me and say they can get it cheaper on line. That's when you want to strangle someone.

eruby · Jul 16, 2018

lee2 said:
I have been on the other side of the table many times and have taken the time to show someone an item only to have them low ball me and say they can get it cheaper on line. That's when you want to strangle someone.

Rack&Roll · Jul 16, 2018

My greatest happiness is prowling gun shows for accessories, parts and old school revolver holsters that are the same vintage as the pre-2000 guns i’ve picked up. (These are things I can rarely find in gun stores, where new product takes priority).

I have good skills in tracking down product info for “classic” stuff I buy but this one has stumped me.

It is a belt-mounted AR mag carrier with a push-button release. I had only seen one like it and I bought it about two years ago. Over this weekend, the same seller had another one of these mag carriers on his table and I snapped it up.

These two carriers are the only ones I have ever encountered. There is not a single maker mark or numerical code anywhere on the carrier, and I cannot locate a single picture of one on the internet.

With no markings, and ALICE clips on this, I’m guessing it is a 80-90s military-produced product?

Bullfrog · Jul 16, 2018

jr88 said:
The whole idea of Gun Show is being lost.

...

4) Ban the practice of people walking around with a long gun for sale (Sale sign sticking out of barrel) Let them rent a table !

Bad idea IMO. This is one of the unique things about gun shows that you just pointed out earlier are being lost. There are some people who will be drawn to go to the shows in the chance they see a private sale they want. Keep whittling down the reasons to visit shows and eventually you are left with no reason at all.

5) Limit the number of tables selling all the Chinese junk accessories. I would rather see a flea-market type table with grips,barrels, used-scopes etc. than cheap junk.

As you pointed out in your own paragraph #2, there are already lots of empty tables and vacant space where tables used to be. I hate the junk tables too, but there is no list of real vendors out there who want that table, so you're just increasing the empty space by getting rid of them.

I agree with more advertising. If you are not actively looking for the next show (or reading MDS), I doubt you're going to know when one is coming.

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