Home Defense Buckshot

jimbobborg · Sep 23, 2016

joppaj said:
Respectfully, you and I define "devastating" quite differently. 8 pellet 00 buck in a softball sized pattern to center mass will like produce what I consider a devastating wound to an unarmored target. #2 birdshot would like produce a bloody but shallow mess. The 00 SHOULD render him incapable of continuing the fight. The birdshot will require an eventual trip to the ER to dig out the shot.

Predator hunters use #2 and BBs to kill coyotes out to 40 yards, though some prefer T pellets. They obviously aren't concerned with how the pelt turns out, but I think you get the idea.

smokey · Sep 23, 2016

alucard0822 said:
I don't even trust 00 to deliver a "devastating" an incapacitating wound. Most training I've been fortunate enough to receive emphasized boring consistency, and to continue shooting till the threat is stopped, being you will likely miss, and it may take several COM hits to stop a determined attacker. I was taught and agree with the premise to put an unforeseen number of rounds on target/s as quick as I can, reloading when able. This is why bird shot that "might work", or "will perform majic at a specific distance" is a dealbreaker. Lighter recoil while retaining sufficient penetration is usually a good thing when it may allow more shots on target. For my purposes I won't run different types of ammo, if I train and pattern for my choice in 8x00 Fed tactical, I don't want a #4, birdshot, slug or whatever else either potentially limiting the effectiveness of the only clear shot I have, patterning differently if I have to make a precise shot, or jamming up my gun, or throwing me off. The ONLY exception would be a mil/PD scenario where you need a slug at distance or breaching rounds, not home defense.

Not to mention 8" in gel doesn't equate to 8" in a human. Skin is pretty tough and most expert-types equate it to 4" of gel. Add bones/clothes/other stuff and 16"(1bk) of penetration becomes much more desirable than 12"(4bk). 20 in(00) means you can be pretty sure the projectiles will penetrate to a depth where important things are.

joppaj · Sep 23, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Predator hunters use #2 and BBs to kill coyotes out to 40 yards, though some prefer T pellets. They obviously aren't concerned with how the pelt turns out, but I think you get the idea.

I have to believe you as I know nothing about coyote hunting. I do know that a coyote weighs a lot less than an adult human and it won't be shooting back.

Side note, what's a t pellet? That's new to me.

smokey · Sep 23, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Predator hunters use #2 and BBs to kill coyotes out to 40 yards, though some prefer T pellets. They obviously aren't concerned with how the pelt turns out, but I think you get the idea.

....not a coyote....

It's also important in defensive shootings to QUICKLY stop the attacker. You're not shooting them and then sitting back and tracking them for a while...you're trying to hault aggression in the span of a couple seconds. That requires a pretty large amount of trauma being done pretty quick.

Rattlesnake46319 · Sep 23, 2016

Are we STILL swearing that birdshot is an effective defense load? Next we'll be touting the Taurus Judge as the perfect SD firearm.

Read. Get educated. Birdshot is for birds. If you want effective penetration of a threat, accept that you will be penetrating walls.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

alucard0822 · Sep 23, 2016

jimbobborg said:
Predator hunters use #2 and BBs to kill coyotes out to 40 yards, though some prefer T pellets. They obviously aren't concerned with how the pelt turns out, but I think you get the idea.

Predator hunters use large pellets in 3" magnum loads with tight chokes, usually T (.20cal) or larger including #2 buck(.27cal), not #2birdshot(.15cal) tungsten and plated shot are popular to increase penetration. A farmer I shoot with loves #4 buck federal with a full choke for everything from predators, feral dogs/cats and woodchucks, we have taken a few down out to 50yards with that load. The point is to SAVE the pelt, a lot of little entry holes are prefferable to a big exit wound from a rifle. Being a big coyote might be 50lbs with vitals only about 4-6" deep with a broadside shot, it's apples and orangutans compared to self defense tactics. A determined attacker may have vitals a foot or more past heavy clothing, barriers, bone, muscle, and whatever limbs may be in the way.

MikeTF · Sep 23, 2016

joppaj said:
Respectfully, you and I define "devastating" quite differently. 8 pellet 00 buck in a softball sized pattern to center mass will like produce what I consider a devastating wound to an unarmored target. #2 birdshot would like produce a bloody but shallow mess. The 00 SHOULD render him incapable of continuing the fight. The birdshot will require an eventual trip to the ER to dig out the shot.

... and a slug, at the intended target will produce?

DanJo · Sep 23, 2016

Buck and Ball. The best of both worlds.

elind · Sep 23, 2016

Hog Wild Hevi Shot!

INMY01TA · Sep 23, 2016

Winchester Super X 00 buckshot here.

jimbobborg · Sep 24, 2016

I brought up the coyote hunters because it does show that some non-buckshot is lethal to something other than birds. I personally don't use a shotgun for HD as it's too unwieldy inside a typical domicile for me.

Kman · Sep 24, 2016

joppaj said:
I have to believe you as I know nothing about coyote hunting. I do know that a coyote weighs a lot less than an adult human and it won't be shooting back.

Side note, what's a t pellet? That's new to me.

Maybe referring to T shot. Turkey and heavy waterfowl loads. Just under buck shot in pellet diameter.

smokey · Sep 24, 2016

DanJo said:
Buck and Ball. The best of both worlds.

More overpenetration than a foster slug with a greater chance of fliers missing the target than a tight shot column from buckshot loads, what's not to like?

Mack C-85 · Sep 24, 2016

T is between BB and Buck. A result of steel shot for waterfowl. Due to the lower density of steel, they made the shot a bit larger to have the same pellet weight as a BB.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Biggfoot44 · Sep 24, 2016

To the extent anything handheld is devastating, a tight pattern of 00B is probably as close as we will get.

The potential attributes ascribed above to no 2 birdshot would actually be achieved with lead BB.

TheGunnyRet · Sep 24, 2016

I have 20 GA first round #9 shot then #4 Buck (2) then #00 Buck then Slug...because the wife can handle that setup.

Though you need to look at your structure within and the fields of Fire...entry points barriers, walls...upstairs downstairs..etc...

We have plaster, sheet rock and concrete walls so depending on who your defending and from were your shooting and the point of entry...

Plus if you have a Dog you don't want to shoot them...have plan with your family and then assert your need...JMO

smokey · Sep 24, 2016

TheGunnyRet said:
I have 20 GA first round #9 shot then #4 Buck (2) then #00 Buck then Slug...because the wife can handle that setup.

Though you need to look at your structure within and the fields of Fire...entry points barriers, walls...upstairs downstairs..etc...

We have plaster, sheet rock and concrete walls so depending on who your defending and from were your shooting and the point of entry...

Plus if you have a Dog you don't want to shoot them...have plan with your family and then assert your need...JMO

How long does it take to travel the longest distance in your house with a knife? How long does it take your wife to fire 4 shots with the 20 ga? Those first two shots suddenly become very important when you look at how fast distance can be closed inside a home. I'm not sure I'd want an ineffective load to be the first couple shots....especially if it's a pump.

Biggfoot44 · Sep 24, 2016

Always plan as if the first shot is the only one you get.

Ranger Tom · Sep 24, 2016

pbharvey said:
Don't overthink it.
00, #1, and #4 will all stop a threat inside your home.

Believe it. Most shots inside a home will be less than 10 yards (30 feet).
Almost anyone hit by a 1 1/8 oz. of any size shot will stop, if the intruder moves again follow up. I keep an unplugged 870 with 5 rounds of Rio #4 buckshot handy.

TheGunnyRet · Sep 25, 2016

smokey0118 said:
How long does it take to travel the longest distance in your house with a knife? How long does it take your wife to fire 4 shots with the 20 ga? Those first two shots suddenly become very important when you look at how fast distance can be closed inside a home. I'm not sure I'd want an ineffective load to be the first couple shots....especially if it's a pump.

The distance is less the 15 ft so I don't think the #9 will spread that far out on full choke, we practice at short distances and it blows a pretty good hole I the Paper Targets...

Shotgun Is loaded as noted and has 5 #4 Buck on the Ammo sleeve for reload...

Besides I have showed her to fire than pump quickly maintain weapon in shoulder. (When I am not Home) And if there is an intruder go to a corner, stay and maintain a open field of view scan and then shoot. Plus she has a 1000 Lumens Flashlight right next to her phone in the nite stand...don't walk around the house to try and find the intruder...if upstairs I have showed her the FOV with minimal scan and fire position...

I don't think that everyone is a LEO Trained person as is with most spouses so it is very hard to predict reactions under stress...even LEOs miss under stress at almost point blank.

I don't know about you, but most people haven't shot a Human Being in there lifetime...People say allot but you never know until it happens to you...

I think the Movies are Biggest Teachers of False Actions...but people don't really know...although lately it has been pretty hazardous to shopping at a Mall...

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