20190314 - HB786 JUD Amendments

swinokur · Mar 20, 2019

The meaning of Bona Fide collector in the statute is undefined.

Therefore IMO it is useless in terms of an affirmative defense for a violation of the transport statute

But IANAL

BeoBill · Mar 20, 2019

rockstarr said:
doesn't the collectors letter give you a bit of leeway here?

MJD438 said:
The only purpose of the Designated Collector letter is to show that you have begged permission from MSP to be permitted to purchase more than one regulated firearm in any given 30-day cycle of time.

swinokur said:
The meaning of Bona Fide collector in the statute is undefined.

Therefore IMO it is useless in terms of an affirmative defense for a violation of the transport statute

But IANAL

The short answer is "No."

Even an FFL03 is shaky as all get out, IMO.

Only an Unrestricted W&C Permit is a Get Out of Jail Free Card, it seems.

dblas · Mar 20, 2019

Boondock Saint said:
Many thanks for education/refresher.

No problem at all.

dblas · Mar 20, 2019

rockstarr said:
doesn't the collectors letter give you a bit of leeway here?

Nope, none at all.

danb · Mar 20, 2019

rockstarr said:
doesn't the collectors letter give you a bit of leeway here?

to pile on, regardless of the collectors letter, the wear and carry statue already carves out the exception for:

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-4/subtitle-2/4-203/

Are you moving your collection from place to place for public or private exhibition? Whats an exhibition? Showboating your AR Pistol for your friends probably does not cut it.

Also, keep in mind, this only applies to handguns....

fabsroman · Mar 20, 2019

lazarus said:
First you’d have to do something that would get police to search your vehicle or person (if you had it on you). If it had risen to the level of a reasonable search, likely you are in deep crap already. Then you’d need a DA who’d want to prosecute. Then a jury who’d be willing to convict.

But let’s face it, many of those intermediate stops are costing your time, money and some amount of freedom along the way.

Would I stop for gas if I needed to? Yes. But yeah, I am not going to swing by the grocery store to pick up a few items when my wife calls me when I am at the range. I am also going to try to be delivery to avoid needing to stop. Which means if I am going to the range for a few hours, I’ll bring a couple of snack bars and a canteen and take a piss in the club house before driving home rather than have to stop to take a leak or grab something to eat.

I’ll also try to avoid needing to get gas if I can reasonably help it.

I think if you can easily prove you were going hunting or shooting, gunsmith, etc. then I doubt a DA would even try to prosecute you and I can’t imagine a jury convicting you. But the more off the explicit exceptions you go, the more likely it is you’ll get your butt nailed if you ever were discovered to be transporting a handgun.

Holy crap, what happens if you put the handguns, SBR, and assault weapons in the truck and then stop at a buddy's house to pick him up before heading to the range? Don't have the police in your driveway when I stop by to pick you up. lol

I agree with you. I would even stop to pick up milk on the way home if my wife were to ask me to do it. Now, stopping off at the stripper bar with a truck load of guns? Don't think I will do that.

The entire gas station thing is ridiculous. Don't stop for gas versus running out of gas on the side of the road. Think I would prefer my chances at the gas station than on the side of the road.

fabsroman · Mar 20, 2019

danb said:
to pile on, regardless of the collectors letter, the wear and carry statue already carves out the exception for:

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-4/subtitle-2/4-203/

Are you moving your collection from place to place for public or private exhibition? Whats an exhibition? Showboating your AR Pistol for your friends probably does not cut it.

Also, keep in mind, this only applies to handguns....

What is a "bona fide collector"? How many guns do I need to own to be a "bona fide collector". Are specific guns (e.g., WWI/WWII surplus) more "bona fide collector" than others (e.g., 2019 Noveske SBR)?

JohnnyE · Mar 21, 2019

fabsroman said:
Holy crap, what happens if you put the handguns, SBR, and assault weapons in the truck and then stop at a buddy's house to pick him up before heading to the range? Don't have the police in your driveway when I stop by to pick you up. lol

I agree with you. I would even stop to pick up milk on the way home if my wife were to ask me to do it. Now, stopping off at the stripper bar with a truck load of guns? Don't think I will do that.

The entire gas station thing is ridiculous. Don't stop for gas versus running out of gas on the side of the road. Think I would prefer my chances at the gas station than on the side of the road.

I figure we are supposed to anticipate everything. Have something to eat and drink, don't forget to pee and poop, and fill the car with gas, all before you load up and head off to the range. If you get a flat tire...?

Minor · Mar 21, 2019

fabsroman said:
What is a "bona fide collector"? How many guns do I need to own to be a "bona fide collector". Are specific guns (e.g., WWI/WWII surplus) more "bona fide collector" than others (e.g., 2019 Noveske SBR)?

On the subject of collector - why wouldn’t the 10 day waiting period be waived since maybe you might already have a gun? #moreidiocyoutofannapolis

rockstarr · Mar 21, 2019

danb said:
to pile on, regardless of the collectors letter, the wear and carry statue already carves out the exception for:

https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-4/subtitle-2/4-203/

Are you moving your collection from place to place for public or private exhibition? Whats an exhibition? Showboating your AR Pistol for your friends probably does not cut it.

Also, keep in mind, this only applies to handguns....

LOL I not showboating anything, nor do I even own an ar pistol. I was curious more in the sense of moving a firearm to a different location to add or remove parts/clean said firearm or something of that sort.

If one doesn't have the proper tools to add something, as example.

swinokur · Mar 21, 2019

Minor said:
On the subject of collector - why wouldn’t the 10 day waiting period be waived since maybe you might already have a gun? #moreidiocyoutofannapolis

Because the statute makes no carve out for DC to be exempt from the 7 day wait

As mentioned, the transport statute applies to handguns, SBR’s, SBS’ and now banned regulated long gun firearms.

teratos · Mar 21, 2019

fabsroman said:
Holy crap, what happens if you put the handguns, SBR, and assault weapons in the truck and then stop at a buddy's house to pick him up before heading to the range?

Nothing. Because you aren't telling anyone you don't trust that they are there, and you really don't care about Unconstitutional laws....

budman93 · Mar 21, 2019

teratos said:
Nothing. Because you aren't telling anyone you don't trust that they are there, and you really don't care about Unconstitutional laws....

fabsroman · Mar 21, 2019

teratos said:
Nothing. Because you aren't telling anyone you don't trust that they are there, and you really don't care about Unconstitutional laws....

Exactly. I don't put the firearms cases out in obvious sight so that anybody will be asking about it. Already know what I will say if an LEO goes on a fishing expedition with questions.

Lloyd · Mar 21, 2019

fabsroman said:
Already know what I will say if an LEO goes on a fishing expedition with questions.

Would you care to share?

.

swinokur · Mar 21, 2019

Say nothing. You have right to be silent

danb · Mar 21, 2019

I tell them the truth, its always your friend. I have nothing to hide. I am a Designated Collector taking my collection of loaded revolvers over to the Highs to make a withdrawal. How do you like my Unicorn onesy, officer?

lazarus · Mar 21, 2019

rockstarr said:
LOL I not showboating anything, nor do I even own an ar pistol. I was curious more in the sense of moving a firearm to a different location to add or remove parts/clean said firearm or something of that sort.

If one doesn't have the proper tools to add something, as example.

There is an exception for gunsmithing. But you better be sure the person is a licensed gunsmith.

There is no exception for taking it over to your buddy’s to have a beer and put a new handguard on your AR pistol.

browning guy · Mar 21, 2019

teratos said:
Nothing. Because you aren't telling anyone you don't trust that they are there, and you really don't care about Unconstitutional laws....

I wiil not comply

budman93 · Mar 22, 2019

Any further movement in the senate?

20190314 - HB786 JUD Amendments

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