Help building MD compliant upper

rbird7282 · Dec 29, 2017

fabsroman said:
Yeah, but this is for a SBR. Feds say I can make it as long as it is 29"+.

With any other AR I build, I'll have to get the profile of the Sporter barrel and adhere to it. Not hard to do there. Wonder what happens to people that acquire a Colt AR-15 Sporter HBAR that has been modified from its original form?

Then again, I have 8 pre-ban lowers. Once I get past the SBR issue on my post ban lowers, I might just stick to building AR-10 rifles for long range use.

If you're building an SBR on a pre-ban lower then it doesn't matter what the barrel profile is. While I completely understand you wanting to follow the law, if you had a bull barrel or heavy barrel (that wasn't marked) how would you lose that in court? If it's dimensionally the same as a HBAR, how could it then be construed as different under the law simply by not being stamped? Nobody is coming around with micrometers at the range to check your AR. Stop with the BGOS, build it and enjoy shooting it.

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fabsroman · Dec 29, 2017

rbird7282 said:
If you're building an SBR on a pre-ban lower then it doesn't matter what the barrel profile is. While I completely understand you wanting to follow the law, if you had a bull barrel or heavy barrel (that wasn't marked) how would you lose that in court? If it's dimensionally the same as a HBAR, how could it then be construed as different under the law simply by not being stamped? Nobody is coming around with micrometers at the range to check your AR. Stop with the BGOS, build it and enjoy shooting it.

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You think I would be having this issue if the lowers for the SBR builds were pre-ban? The entire reason I bought so many lowers before the ban was so I could put whatever barrel I want on them that is 16"+ unless I got a tax stamp for them. So, after the ban was put in place, I bought 3 more lowers so I could SBR them before ATF Rule 41p went into effect. Based upon what I was reading on here, it was my impression that I could put whatever barrel I wanted on them. So, I submitted the Form 1. Then, I decided to read the law myself to make sure I would not be going to prison. I've done research on what the interpretation of "copy" is. I've done research on what guns are not banned. I've done research on what an "hbar" is. My worry on the 458 SOCOM isn't all that much, but I am still going to try to have the barrel stamped HBAR. I worry more about the 5.56 and .300 BLK, but I am going to get those barrels .750+ and they will also be stamped HBAR. Guessing that is the best I can possibly do to make sure I remain compliant with this cluster jack.

vgplayer · Dec 29, 2017

fabsroman said:
I know, it is always easier to not stir the pot and take advantage of what the powers that be are giving us right now. That is until the powers that be change their mind, and next thing I know i am wearing silver bracelets.

And when your masters change their mind what are you going to do? How many M&P 15 Sport rifles were transferred as cash and carry because the MSP said it was ok to do so and then changed their mind? If someone has a M&P 15 Sport transfered after 10/1/13 are they to surrender it?

I'm not saying blatantly break the law but what does it say when good individuals put this much effort in the not displeasing their masters? At some point being an American means acting as a Freeman and not a subject.

outrider58 · Dec 29, 2017

vgplayer said:
And when your masters change their mind what are you going to do? How many M&P 15 Sport rifles were transferred as cash and carry because the MSP said it was ok to do so and then changed their mind? If someone has a M&P 15 Sport transfered after 10/1/13 are they to surrender it?

I'm not saying blatantly break the law but what does it say when good individuals put this much effort in the not displeasing their masters? At some point being an American means acting as a Freeman and not a subject.

Bravo!

DGI · Mar 1, 2018

Almost there :-)

ktigerJ · Mar 7, 2018

DGI said:
Almost there :-)

Around here we take pictures of our AR's with at least some toes showing. Get it right ... :lol2:

Nice looking rifle regardless.

fabsroman · Mar 7, 2018

vgplayer said:
And when your masters change their mind what are you going to do? How many M&P 15 Sport rifles were transferred as cash and carry because the MSP said it was ok to do so and then changed their mind? If someone has a M&P 15 Sport transfered after 10/1/13 are they to surrender it?

I'm not saying blatantly break the law but what does it say when good individuals put this much effort in the not displeasing their masters? At some point being an American means acting as a Freeman and not a subject.

Man, sorry I missed this post a couple months ago.

If MSP changed its mind and is not stating that the M&P 15 Sport is a banned rifle, then that means a person can be charged with breaking the law. Heck, a person can be charged with breaking the law by another law enforcement agency even if MSP says something. Until the Court of Appeals says something, everything else is merely interpretation.

Now, if you have a M&P 15 Sport and you are out at the range, what would you do if a law enforcement officer asks to see the gun? Would you refuse? If you refuse and the LEO has reason to believe the rifle might be a banned rifle, what do you do when the officer asks you to turn around and put your hands on your head because you refused a lawful order? If you comply and go the court route, what do you do when a jury finds you guilty of possessing a banned rifle that was not grandfathered in?

Of course, those that bought a M&P 15 Sport cash and carry, that now know it is a banned rifle, always have the opportunity to sell the firearm out of state or to change the configuration of the upper to bring it into compliance.

I want to build a machine gun and shoot it from time to time, but there are a myriad of laws that say I shouldn't.

omegared24 · Mar 7, 2018

fabsroman said:
Great first post. This really is some insanity.

Hard to believe that there isn't a manufacturer our there that is willing to make a "Maryland compliant" barrel with a model name/number associated with it and stamped on the barrel. Is there no barrel manufacturer in Maryland willing to make HBAR/Heavy barrels for the AR-15? I sit here wondering if this is some niche market that I could get myself into.

With that said, I know that Engage in Rockille was getting some barrels from White Oak that were stamped HBAR. When I stopped in and spoke to Nate about getting some for my SBR builds, he said that it was probably unlikely because they have to order in quantity and there isn't that much demand for the barrels for SBR builds. This conversation was so long ago, that Nate has left Engaged for a job with Ruger in its legal department. Granted, Ruger then came out with a Maryland Compliant AR-15 with the correct barrel profile and a 10 round mag. I really like Ruger. lol

So, my search for a HBAR barrel for my SBR builds continues. I'll eventually get the dealer advisory regarding what constitutes HBAR/Heavy and then I will just order some custom barrels from X-Caliber. At least they associate a barrel diameter with their HBAR selection.

I reached out to a manufacturer last week regarding stamped HBAR barrels and they told me they may be able to do them for any caliber they provide as they do them in house. If they can do it, I will order a few and see how they shoot. If you want I will get one for you and you can test it as well.

I'm not going to share the company name right now because I don't want to get any negative comments until I have a chance to try them out. Fabs...feel free to message me and I'll share the info if you are interested.

Bountied · Mar 7, 2018

I wonder if all manufacturers of barrels just started stamping them HBAR or marketing them as "heavy" then all barrels would be MD legal. Since the MSP doesn't specifically have any diameter requirements, what constitutes heavy? If I held an M4 profile barrel in my hand, and yeah that's heavy compared to a ruler or whatever.

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