HB1261 - Weapon Crimes - Assault Long Guns and Copycat Weapons

ironpony · Feb 15, 2020

Hmm, I thought it would be higher, too bad I can’t delete that now.
Attorneys are great people

rbird7282 · Feb 15, 2020

Allen65 said:
That's out of context. Here is the full text of that section of law:
-
"No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation."
-
It's pretty specific to actions of the Federal GOV, i.e. the Feds can't require states to keep records. It does not forbid states from establishing their own system of records under their own authorities. And there's an argument made that under the 10th Amendment, the Feds can't forbid a state from doing so on its own.

This.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doctor_M · Feb 15, 2020

I'm going to make my appointment to pick up my sizable packet on Friday.

BeoBill · Feb 15, 2020

CanDoEZ said:
I used the MSP PIA email for a data request. Be interesting to see the results.

It's already "lost in the system".

dblas · Feb 15, 2020

squaregrouper said:
18 U.S. Code, citation 926 (a), (3)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926

It appears pretty cut and dry to me. What am I missing?

Let me break it down for you...

18 U.S. Code said:
(a) The Attorney General may prescribe only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter, including—

That would be the US AG, not every state level AG.

18 U.S. Code said:
(1) regulations providing that a person licensed under this chapter, when dealing with another person so licensed, shall provide such other licensed person a certified copy of this license;

(2) regulations providing for the issuance, at a reasonable cost, to a person licensed under this chapter, of certified copies of his license for use as provided under regulations issued under paragraph (1) of this subsection; and

(3) regulations providing for effective receipt and secure storage of firearms relinquished by or seized from persons described in subsection (d)(8) or (g)(8) of section 922.

18 U.S. Code said:
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records,

This is Saying that Federal records may not be maintained, or any portion of such records, remember, this is federal law and directing the Federal DOF and specifically the USAG, what he may/may not do, not state AGs.

18 U.S. Code said:
be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof,

The records mentioned above CANNOT be kept in any facility owned/operated by the Federal Government, ant state level government, or any lower political subdivision of any state government (i.e. county/city/etc. governments)

18 U.S. Code said:
nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established.

The Secretary of DOJ (USAG) CANNOT create a system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transfer at the federal level. Again, this is a federal law directed at the USAG, and does not prevent a state from doing any of this, much like Maryland does with transfers.

18 U.S. Code said:
Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary’s [1] authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

They can research 4473s for criminal investigations.

18 U.S. Code said:
(b) The Attorney General shall give not less than ninety days public notice, and shall afford interested parties opportunity for hearing, before prescribing such rules and regulations.
(c) The Attorney General shall not prescribe rules or regulations that require purchasers of black powder under the exemption provided in section 845(a)(5) of this title to complete affidavits or forms attesting to that exemption.
(Added Pub. L. 90–351, title IV, § 902, June 19, 1968, 82 Stat. 234; amended Pub. L. 90–618, title I, § 102, Oct. 22, 1968, 82 Stat. 1226; Pub. L. 99–308, § 106, May 19, 1986, 100 Stat. 459; Pub. L. 103–322, title XI, § 110401(d), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2015; Pub. L. 107–296, title XI, § 1112(f)(6), Nov. 25, 2002, 116 Stat. 2276.)[/quote

Hope that helps.

esqappellate · Feb 15, 2020

Malachi.2.15 said:
Understand it is a federal law...but there are elements of the FOPA that are absolutely binding to the states. Why doesn't that apply here?

To me...it is confusing enough to be interpreted that the states can't keep a registry either.

See
18 U.S.C.A. § 927
§ 927. Effect on State law

No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which
such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive
conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together.

inkd · Feb 15, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Inkd- I want to confirm or deny whether every regulated firearm purchased stays on my file even after it is sold. I am confident that the multiple firearms I sold out of state (via a MD FFL) are still in my name. This includes an AR stripped lower I sold on Gunbroker for >$200 during the last panic. If the "ban em all bill" passes, I have the sneaking suspicion MSP is going to try to put the burden of proof on me to prove I no longer own said regulated firearm. I want to have my ducks in a row if this actually happens.
EX- Roughly 10yrs ago, I sold an original, first year, Flattop Blackhawk .44 Magnum. It was from the first batch of commercial .44 Magnums ever made. I am positive I don't have documentation of how I disposed of it- other than knowing I transferred it via Christian Soldier in Parkville, which no longer exists. How many more legally sold firearms are still tied to me?

Gotcha. I'll be in exactly the same boat. I've sold numerous AR's and pistols since I've been here. Some out of state, some locally. I used to keep all the records but at some point, I believe I purged them all.

inkd · Feb 15, 2020

IDFInfantry said:
"When they try to take anybody's stuff we all gotta to show up!"

He and Matt Bracken should get together and write a book.

Nickberg500 · Feb 15, 2020

Do these delegates have phonelines we can call? If yes, I'll call them during lunchtime every day if it changes their minds....

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Allen65 · Feb 15, 2020

Nickberg500 said:
Do these delegates have phonelines we can call? If yes, I'll call them during lunchtime every day if it changes their minds....

Here are the folks on the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee with links to their contact info:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Committees/Details?cmte=jpr&activeTab=divLegislation

IMHO there's no point wasting your cell phone minutes with the House Judiciary Committee.

You can find your MD delegates and Senator and their contact info with this tool:
https://maryland.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=177afa87a67746a4ac5496b2d0897fb7

Art3 · Feb 15, 2020

Allen65 said:
Here are the folks on the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee with links to their contact info:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Committees/Details?cmte=jpr&activeTab=divLegislation

IMHO there's no point wasting your cell phone minutes with the House Judiciary Committee.

You can find your MD delegates and Senator and their contact info with this tool:
https://maryland.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=177afa87a67746a4ac5496b2d0897fb7

Who doesn't have unlimited minutes? :shrug:

If it makes him feel better to do it, good for him :mdpatriot

(and all of us)

whistlersmother · Feb 15, 2020

dblas said:
They don't want to audit it or correct it, even though they know of the numerous flaws and mis-information that is in it. There are several members on this board that have firearms purchases attributed to them with the wrong serial number of the firearm. MSP and DCPS (The maintaining organization of the LE related databases in Maryland) are aware of the incorrect serial numbers, they refuse to correct them.

Can this be gotten in writing and possibly submitted as evidence if needed at a later date?

If MSP knows it's bad, then it would seem a slam dunk to get any charges dismissed.

dblas · Feb 15, 2020

whistlersmother said:
Can this be gotten in writing and possibly submitted as evidence if needed at a later date?

If MSP knows it's bad, then it would seem a slam dunk to get any charges dismissed.

What charges.....

And no need to get it writing when the FFL keeps a copy of the 77R and the 4473 which have the correct serial number.

Malachi.2.15 · Feb 16, 2020

esqappellate said:
See
18 U.S.C.A. § 927
§ 927. Effect on State law

No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which
such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive
conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together.

Thank you.

whistlersmother · Feb 16, 2020

dblas said:
What charges.....

And no need to get it writing when the FFL keeps a copy of the 77R and the 4473 which have the correct serial number.

So red flag is served, police ask about handgun xyz, having got the info from MSP, but flagee never had such gun.

In HoCo he would be arrested and a search warrant issued.

It might be helpful in the ensuing court case to show MSP information is hogwash.

Mark75H · Feb 16, 2020

whistlersmother said:
So red flag is served, police ask about handgun xyz, having got the info from MSP, but flagee never had such gun.

In HoCo he would be arrested and a search warrant issued.

It might be helpful in the ensuing court case to show MSP information is hogwash.

Exactly. This precident needs to be set.

CharlieFoxtrot · Feb 16, 2020

Here's some more fuel for the fire: about 7-8 years ago I received a letter sent to me at my home address in Frederick County from the PG county police department. It was from a Detective saying a pistol that was was "registered" to me and listed the serial number had been recovered and and I could come down and pick it up from the police evidence section. The pistol was identified as a Charter Arms 38 spl revolver. Thing is I have never owned any charter arms pistol and at that time had never had a firearm stolen from me. I wrote them back and said they were mistaken I never owned any such firearm. Never heard back from them but it shows you how good their records are.

fidelity · Feb 16, 2020

CharlieFoxtrot said:
.... The pistol was identified as a Charter Arms 38 spl revolver. ....

Lol, almost insulting (apologies to Charter Arms owners). An old, blued Colt revolver might have made it just slightly harder to say it's not mine.

6-Pack · Feb 16, 2020

CharlieFoxtrot said:
Here's some more fuel for the fire: about 7-8 years ago I received a letter sent to me at my home address in Frederick County from the PG county police department. It was from a Detective saying a pistol that was was "registered" to me and listed the serial number had been recovered and and I could come down and pick it up from the police evidence section. The pistol was identified as a Charter Arms 38 spl revolver. Thing is I have never owned any charter arms pistol and at that time had never had a firearm stolen from me. I wrote them back and said they were mistaken I never owned any such firearm. Never heard back from them but it shows you how good their records are.

I would’ve taken the free gun. They probably destroyed it anyways.

After all, it was yours

ironpony · Feb 16, 2020

Interstate? Say one moves to free America and next session said free state adopts red flag laws. Can they ask MD for your purchase records and would MD hand them over. (Shipped overnight with a bow on top)?

Asking for a friend.

HB1261 - Weapon Crimes - Assault Long Guns and Copycat Weapons

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Member

Ultimate Member

Certified Mad Scientist

Crank in the Third Row

Past President, MSI

President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Eqinsu Ocha

Peace through strength

Past President, MSI

Active Member

Peace through strength

MD Wear&Carry Instructor

,

piled higher and deeper

NRA Life Member

Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics