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Old January 13th, 2020, 07:40 PM #11
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Why not just field multiple “expert panels” instead of just 1 or 2? The expert panels get more time, and you could coordinate the testimony into a specific point, with one handing off to the other. Who determines who is an expert panel anyway? Just make some.

They are oppressing our ability to voice our points anyway with their rule changes, so change it up using their own rules
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Old January 13th, 2020, 08:18 PM #12
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I like some of your thoughts but I'm going to just say this and it's going to be unpopular.

The legislators on the other side do not care what you have to say. They do not care about your testimony. It doesn't matter how compelling it is or how right you are. I saw it in 2013 when we brought enough people to shut down admittance to the legislature for fire code reasons. In the end they are going to do what hey are going to do.

I'm not saying to not show up. I'm not saying to not testify. I'm not saying don't call and or email. There is a chance it may help in some way.

Honestly the most effective fight I've seen is by the Patriot Picket. They shook up the other side. They organized. They provided a common message. My bet is on that kind of grass roots movement being our best hope. I would follow them and their leadership as they have proven themselves.

The other side doesn't care about you and what you want. They do care when you start to push them like the Patriot Picket does.

I would encourage you to look more into what they are doing this year.

Just my thoughts.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 03:38 AM #13
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Hey all, thanks for the feedback. I totally agree with you all that this is whole thing can be viewed as an exercise in frustration. Given everything that has happened in this state, I too felt that we were going to become another New Jersey. However, the 2019 session really opened up my eyes to what is actually possible from our side. People forget just how precarious our situation was that year. We were hot off the heels of the Capital Gazette shooting, Maryland's first "proper" mass shooting. Literally happened down the road from the General Assembly. Was committed with a shotgun by a man with no priors. MGA went absolutely NUCLEAR since NONE of the existing laws could have combated what occurred. They brought out everything: long gun licensing with no HQL exemption, 1 month gun rationing, UBCs, HBAR ban, home manufacture/3D print ban, etc. During testimony we had to face down Gazette employees who escaped the shooting, whose tears could easily wash away a thousand of our testimonies. They dispersed us by introducing equal bills in both houses. They cut down our testimony time. They shoved all the bills into one hearing. They drained us by forcing us to stay late. We had nowhere near the numbers that we did back in 2013. We were for all intents and purposes, absolutely screwed.

And yet here we are. Those bills were killed. You can say they bit off more than they could chew. You can say we had some mysterious allies in the Democratic party. You can say it was all because Busch died. Point is, they hesitated. Despite the fact that they had everything going for them + unbeatable majority, they decided it wasn't worth it. And where are they now? Those bills haven't reared their ugly head this session. How did we go from 2013 where everything passed, to 2019 where nothing passed? I can only conclude that we have SOME effect on these politicians. They CAN be talked to (even if just a little, that's all we need). We DO matter and I want people to SEE that rather than resort to the same dejected defeatism that plagues 2A advocates everywhere. Maryland is NOT a lost cause. There are states like CA, NY, and NJ which certainly are and they've earned their right to give up. But us? We still have our chance.

I don't want that hope to be a blind optimism either. I want us to equip ourselves with the best testimony our side can offer. Let's be real, voting them out is a fantasy. And as much as I love Patriot Picket, we can't ALL be Patriot Picket. It's just not feasible for most. Inevitably there will come a day when their presence is not enough and we will be the last ones left to guard what's ours. When that time comes, we're going to need fresh 2A arguments that hit harder than what we normally deliver. These Democratic politicians are all we have to work with, so if we want to have any effect we have to craft our arguments around how THEY think. They hate guns because they're used in countless Baltimore homicides and most recently against their own city-folk. They hate us because our age-old tactic has been to sit on our hands and proclaim "a criminal by definition doesn't follow the law" or "it's a mental health problem" with no specifics provided. Given the choice of doing anything vs. doing nothing, are we honestly surprised that they chose to do what they did? Mass shootings and Baltimore are a STAIN on all Maryland politicians. They would honestly do ANYTHING to fix them. They're desperate, they've thrown everything they know how to do at it and it still doesn't make a dent in the problem. Our goal this session should be to OWN THE SOLUTIONS. The ones that take REAL EFFORT on their part, the ones they kept IGNORING because we made it too easy for them. They have a SUNK COST MENTALITY with gun control policy. They've invested so much on it and they think doubling down is the ONLY thing they can do; they have a constituency that howls for it and a million interest groups that reinforce it. Our goal then should be to let them know that IT'S OKAY to TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT instead of making life WORSE for us.

But that's enough of my spiel. I've left alot uncovered, the rest I'll save for Wednesday itself. This is a relatively slow year; Virginia will undoubtedly embolden them. If we can't change the course now, what chance do we stand next time? All I ask from you guys is to try and think out of the box this year. We've got the best people, I'm sure we can do it.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 07:49 AM #14
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Originally Posted by NewTwo View Post
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But that's enough of my spiel. I've left alot uncovered, the rest I'll save for Wednesday itself. This is a relatively slow year; Virginia will undoubtedly embolden them. If we can't change the course now, what chance do we stand next time? All I ask from you guys is to try and think out of the box this year. We've got the best people, I'm sure we can do it.
Lots of good stuff in that post.

But I disagree with you about VA. The antis grossly underestimated the size, vehemence, and widespread distribution of opposition to their efforts. Northam, Saslaw, etc. genuinely believed the echo chambers they live in represented the whole state, which would welcome their efforts to get rid of evil gunz and Darth NRA, throwing flowers in their paths on the way to the dais to exhort the VA General Assembly to pass legislation that does everything just short of outlawing private ownership of firearms outright.

We're seeing the results of that unexpected resistance in some of the outright immature legislation being thrown out by junior members of the Assembly, bills like the defacto ban on NRA's range, and the threat to instantly fire any local LE who question their efforts.

What may have most surprised the antis is that the leaderless, truly grass-roots nature of the opposition. I know several antis who believe that if the NRA HQ was swallowed in a sinkhole tomorrow, all opposition to gun bans would evaporate. The pro-2A movement seems to be taking its inspiration, even if it doesn't realize it, from the Hong Kong resistance against the CCP. Lack of centralized leadership deprives the antis of someone to demagogue and attack.

The outcome in VA is still very much in doubt. The Party owns the House, but their margin in the Senate is slim enough that turning a few non-urban D senators can thwart passage of bills. The NSYRPA case is still fermenting at SCOTUS, VA courts have lots of non-Progressive judges who can issue injunctions against new laws, and then there's the WWNC Movement. Lots of moving parts to keep track of.

VA is still purple, and the D's arrogant, and occasionally childish, behavior is going to cost them dearly in the next election there, at least if the Rs can actually find candidates to run against them. For now what's needed is a holding action to prevent permanent damage to otherwise lawful firearms owners before that next election can happen.

MD is different. While we can mitigate some of the worst of the anti's efforts with testimony and lobbying, the Party's supermajority in both houses, the stacking of the judiciary by the Party over decades, the lack of enumerated 2A protections in the MD State Constitution, and the demographics of the state, mean that we'll be on the defensive for the foreseeable future. The only realistic path forward back to reclaim rights we've already lost in MD is through SCOTUS action.

Last edited by Allen65; January 14th, 2020 at 09:03 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 08:58 AM #15
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I've seen the " cordination " of the demanding mommies in testifying , and I'm glad that they do , and we don't . They all literally read from the same piece of paper , over & over, one after the other .

Now more than ever we need to be dynamic in our testimony . No not jumping around like an action movie , but tailor our Testimony in reaction to previous testimony .

The side in Support of a Bill testifies first , so usually the anti's go first . They will speak a lot of crap . We need refute their points , and call out their bogus facts . That's why MGA has wifi , so we can fact check their lies with UCR , etc .

For presenting our side , we have truth, justice , and near unlimited facts on our side , and thereby lots of potential talking points .

Listen to all the previous ( our side) testimony . A good point not yet mentioned ? You bring it up . A good point started , but time limited ? Pick up and continue . Or come at it from different angle . Or any time you can relate personal experiences of yourself or your family , that's great .

Sure have something written , or outlined, or notes just in case , but don't be married to it , if it's not the best move at that moment .

I always have extra copies of my written testimony , but it's been rare for me to actually use it in oral testimony .
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Old January 14th, 2020, 10:06 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by on_the_rox View Post
I like some of your thoughts but I'm going to just say this and it's going to be unpopular.

The legislators on the other side do not care what you have to say. They do not care about your testimony. It doesn't matter how compelling it is or how right you are. I saw it in 2013 when we brought enough people to shut down admittance to the legislature for fire code reasons. In the end they are going to do what hey are going to do.

I'm not saying to not show up. I'm not saying to not testify. I'm not saying don't call and or email. There is a chance it may help in some way.

Honestly the most effective fight I've seen is by the Patriot Picket. They shook up the other side. They organized. They provided a common message. My bet is on that kind of grass roots movement being our best hope. I would follow them and their leadership as they have proven themselves.

The other side doesn't care about you and what you want. They do care when you start to push them like the Patriot Picket does.

I would encourage you to look more into what they are doing this year.

Just my thoughts.


I do agree that the legislators don’t care what we have to say. That said, our efforts/pressure need to be multi-pronged.

As someone else posted, VA is turning out to be a powder keg. How the legislators, .gov and media react, in addition to the overall result of Lobby Day and whatever demonstration goes along with it, will be studied (by both sides) and we should find ways to shape our tactics. If things go positively for the 2A side, it very well could be a “blood in the water” moment. Couple that with favorable court rulings on various issues, and things can change.

Pie in the sky? Maybe. But we’re also not at the cartridge box, yet.


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Old January 14th, 2020, 11:22 AM #17
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MSI's written testimony is up on the MSI website. https://www.marylandshallissue.org/j...osition-to-hb4 We urgently need FFLs to testify on Wednesday.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 12:10 PM #18
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Please, please, please! People READ the bill. This is not a LQL bill! All over Facebook I am hearing so many false things about this bill! Before you submit written testimony, or give oral testimony, KNOW what this bill is! They will laugh, literally, if you stand up there and talk about an LQL. Also, please share the word on social media!
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Old January 14th, 2020, 01:37 PM #19
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One thing I didn't see in your paper is this, Moms and other anti organizations are being paid to coordinate their attacks. Bloomberg and others are paying for these people to do what they do. They have a single point of focus brought about by a million dollar organization who does their organization for them. Most of this stuff on their side isn't grass roots but being manipulated by big money. I think your points are valid, think about it, but we are a grass roots organization.

So how do people get hold of you to help organize they way you think it should be done? Sounds like you want to do the right thing and volunteer to coordinate future activities.
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Moms especially are better organized than the MSP. Their speakers/witnesses are given the "Talking Points" specifically crafted and tested/verified for the target venue and audience. Their sheeple are available on demand and not only organized, but regimented. And most importantly, they have Bloomberg's nearly infinite resources behind them:
  • A well paid propaganda writing source
  • A national source of red-shirted sheeple to smother the opposition
  • A selection of professionally printed sign material
  • A cadre of friendly local politicians, well paid in "contributions" for job security.
  • A national media organization to publicize whatever of the above necessary to maintain traction.
I'm not saying it's impossible to prevail. We do need to find and exploit their vulnerabilities. This fight is a mix of law and PR, with the emphasis on PR.
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Old January 14th, 2020, 05:28 PM #20
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emails sent today to Judiciary committee and both Frederick county senators.
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