powder feedback 165gr bullet

Moorvogi · Dec 30, 2019

I've typically used IMR4350 or IMR4064 but have never tried IMR4831 nor have i tried the bullets I'm about to try. The bullets are 165gr TTST bullets.

For now, I'm PROBABLY going to do is use 4350 or 4064 because i keep them on hand for other stuff... unless someone says I'm nuts and need to try the imr 4831 lol.

Anyone have AMAZING results or a simple preference to one over the other?

Biggfoot44 · Dec 30, 2019

Cartridge ?

steves1911 · Dec 30, 2019

308? If so my favorite powders for 308 in order are reloader 15, varget, imr4064.

Moorvogi · Dec 31, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
Cartridge ?

I intentionally left out the cartage as I'll be using this bullet for a few different rifles and a few different cartridges. I didn't want people to get head wrapped around X powder for Y cartridge but not for Z cartridge or even simply say use cartridge H instead of B. I also want to minimize the number of "special powders" i keep on hand for 1 cartridge. With the powder laws in Maryland, i dont want to waste an entire pound of powder for ONE firearm.

It also minimizes the likelihood of someone posting load data that could turn into a pipe bomb for others hahah. anyway.. yes.. i intentionally left it out.

Moorvogi · Dec 31, 2019

steves1911 said:
308? If so my favorite powders for 308 in order are reloader 15, varget, imr4064.

i've heard good things of reloader X. While i've never used varget i hear it's much like imr4064.

i originaly went w/ imr4064 because it covered the most cartridges i was reloading. it may not be ROCKSTAR powder for any but "sub moa for all" is good enough for me.

I'll look for published data for the other two powders. Thanks for your feedback. I also shoot year round not just "durn deer seazon" so the powder that will tip the scales will be one that's marketed as temperature insensitive though that's not the first priority.

John from MD · Dec 31, 2019

165 is at the lower end of where 4831 will work. It really is a slow powder that works best with heavy bullets, and/or long barrels and for overbore cartridges. IMHO, 4064 would be a better choice.

Park ranger · Dec 31, 2019

I dont think you should leave out the case. 300 blackout, 308, and 300 weatherby are all going to use different powders.

onedash · Dec 31, 2019

I get excellent results with 4064. I could never find varget but when I did that worked great too. 175gr Sierra Match Kings. Fire formed brass CCI BR Primers.

Pinecone · Dec 31, 2019

Park ranger said:
I dont think you should leave out the case. 300 blackout, 308, and 300 weatherby are all going to use different powders.

EXACTLY.

If you don't want a pipe bomb, then you need to specify cartridge.

And too bad, depending on the cartridges, you may need a different powder for each one.

Only single powder across the entire .30 caliber range is Trail Boss.

Pinecone · Dec 31, 2019

onedash said:
I get excellent results with 4064. I could never find varget but when I did that worked great too. 175gr Sierra Match Kings. Fire formed brass CCI BR Primers.

In .300 Winchester Magnum? In .300 Blackout????

Moorvogi · Jan 1, 2020

Pinecone said:
EXACTLY.

If you don't want a pipe bomb, then you need to specify cartridge.

And too bad, depending on the cartridges, you may need a different powder for each one.

Only single powder across the entire .30 caliber range is Trail Boss.

Love me some trailboss!

That being said I’m still only going with 2+ published data. Is it’s not listed, I won’t use it. Not stepping out of the reloading safety stuff.

Let’s do this differently.

Pick your favorite color of these three: brown, blue, orange.

... ya. Hahah. So far, blue seems to be winning. But I like the justification/qualification of why orange is good/bad. Because of these ... orange is probably out of the race.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

E.Shell · Jan 1, 2020

I tried the 'single powder approach' in the late '70s and early '80s and gave it up as illogical. Instead of getting mediocre performance from everything loaded with one powder type that is not ideal for anything. I finally came around, added a couple more powders and optimized it all.

"Families" of cartridge cases, with similar shapes, bore ratios and relative bullet weights, can effectively use similar powders: Some 'fast and dirty' examples: .223 and .308 (Varget/RE-15/4895), .22 Hornet and .30-30 (3031/4198), .30-06, .270 and .280 Rem (4064), .260 Rem and 6.5 CM (H4350), 7mm RemMag and .300WinMag (H-1000/4831), etc..

Otherwise, NO. Long term, one will normally be happier if running the correct powder for each family.

To get magnum performance in magnum cases, magnum style powders are required. Trying to use a fast burning powder in a magnum configured case with a high bore ratio leaves a LOT of potential performance 'on the table', along with sensitivity to very small changes. Trying to use slow burning powders in cases of moderate bore ratio will also provide substandard results, with excessive velocity variations, excessive fouling, lost velocity and eventual headspace issues.

You may find this helpful, albeit in need of update:
http://www.shell-central.com/Powder1.html

E.Shell · Jan 1, 2020

Pinecone said:
EXACTLY.

If you don't want a pipe bomb, then you need to specify cartridge.

And too bad, depending on the cartridges, you may need a different powder for each one.

This.

Only single powder across the entire .30 caliber range is Trail Boss.

Interesting..."the entire .30 caliber range"...what velocity does Trail Boss provide in your .300 WinMag?

Answer: Not much, and this is a perfect example.

Trail Boss is extremely fast burning and designed for low bore ratio cartridges. The only load listed for the .300 WinMag is with a 150 and the max loads show just under 1,700 FPS. You can get more velocity than this with a 150 in any number of cartridges, such as the 7.62x39, .30-30, even a little .300 BO... Why run a mag case to get pop-gun results? By contrast, a more correct powder in the .300 WinMag will drive that same 150 to more than 3,200 fps...almost twice as fast.

Trail Boss only delivers 870 fps from the BlackOut, while every other listed powder shows velocities approaching 2,000 fps with the 150 grain bullet - meaning it is STILL too fast, even for the BO. The velocity potential with wrong powder in the .300 WinMag can easily be exceeded with the right powder in the .300 BO: 1,700 fps in the cavernous mag case, vs 2,000 fos in the teeny BO case.

Draw you own conclusions...

E.Shell · Jan 1, 2020

Moorvogi said:
...Let’s do this differently.

Pick your favorite color of these three: brown, blue, orange.

I like all three of these equally, but the RIGHT powder for you application is Green

Uncle Duke · Jan 1, 2020

There was a thread awhile back that framed this question as "if you could only have one rifle powder on the shelf, what would it be?" Maybe more relevant to a prepper or shortage hedging situation. As in, what powder would work, at least somewhat well, for most of what I shoot? Even there though, any such hypothetical analysis needs to be cartridge specific.

Pinecone · Jan 1, 2020

E.Shell said:
Interesting..."the entire .30 caliber range"...what velocity does Trail Boss provide in your .300 WinMag?

Answer: Not much, and this is a perfect example.

Trail Boss is extremely fast burning and designed for low bore ratio cartridges. The only load listed for the .300 WinMag is with a 150 and the max loads show just under 1,700 FPS. You can get more velocity than this with a 150 in any number of cartridges, such as the 7.62x39, .30-30, even a little .300 BO... Why run a mag case to get pop-gun results? By contrast, a more correct powder in the .300 WinMag will drive that same 150 to more than 3,200 fps...almost twice as fast.

Trail Boss only delivers 870 fps from the BlackOut, while every other listed powder shows velocities approaching 2,000 fps with the 150 grain bullet - meaning it is STILL too fast, even for the BO. The velocity potential with wrong powder in the .300 WinMag can easily be exceeded with the right powder in the .300 BO: 1,700 fps in the cavernous mag case, vs 2,000 fos in the teeny BO case.

Draw you own conclusions...

I said it could be used, not that it would be DESIRABLE to do so.

Other powders are potentially dangerous in the wrong cartridge.

Pinecone · Jan 1, 2020

Uncle Duke said:
There was a thread awhile back that framed this question as "if you could only have one rifle powder on the shelf, what would it be?" Maybe more relevant to a prepper or shortage hedging situation. As in, what powder would work, at least somewhat well, for most of what I shoot? Even there though, any such hypothetical analysis needs to be cartridge specific.

Even in that case, there are some powders that are usable across a wide range, but not that they are the best for all those.

But yes, to cover the entire range of .30 cal, you need a number of different powders. And to cover it with great performance, you need even more powders.

powder feedback 165gr bullet

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