.357 Magnum Load for a Six Inch Barrel

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    Options are Good .

    A .357 is all about options .


    Kanastra hasn't shared his amount of Revolver experience ( leastways not in this thread ) . Don't want to assume either way . An old school Revolver True Believer ? ( I resemble that remark ) New to the Revolver ? Kind of in the middle ? Moderate kickers so far , or channeling the Ghost of Elmer Keith ? ( Youngsters google him .)

    While the Gun doesn't require breaking in , it is good for the shooter to start out at a medium power level to get used to the balance and sight picture of a new to them gun , and to learn its DA trigger .

    As you achieve ( groups at least as small as you shoot with tupperware ) at reasonably expeditious pace, step up incrementally in power ( aka recoil ) , until you shoot those as well as the previous level .

    Joshing, and insider humor aside , full tilt boogie .357 loads ( in anything smaller than N Frame ) are rather dramatic , and a handful to control in rapid rife . ( It CAN be done, but requires good technique and frequent practice to maintain . Heck right now , I'd have to put in some trigger time before feeling confident to load the hot stuff for social purposes .)

    Work your way up from .38 +P to "Medium " Magnums, which is a quite respectable level in its own right .

    If the OP is a serious Revolver Guy , no offense , just consider this rambling post a service to those out there just starting, or contemplating a magnum revolver .
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    I started shooting Revolver 35 years ago with a Ruger Security Six Chambered in 357. I started out my break in period yesterday with 70 rounds of 125 to 158 gr 38 spl. In a half scale B-27, the majority of the shots were 8 to X ring shooting one handed offhand (my left shoulder is jacked up.) I moved the target to 15 yards and forced my shoulder to hang in there. 21 of 24 shots where head shots to include using the Super hot LeverRevolution round.


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    Bisleyfan44

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 11, 2008
    1,754
    Wicomico
    I started shooting Revolver 35 years ago with a Ruger Security Six Chambered in 357. I started out my break in period yesterday with 70 rounds of 125 to 158 gr 38 spl. In a half scale B-27, the majority of the shots were 8 to X ring shooting one handed offhand (my left shoulder is jacked up.) I moved the target to 15 yards and forced my shoulder to hang in there. 21 of 24 shots where head shots to include using the Super hot LeverRevolution round.


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    Just be aware, LeveRevolution factory velocities are taken from carbines, not revolvers. Not as hot as the numbers indicate.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Just be aware, LeveRevolution factory velocities are taken from carbines, not revolvers. Not as hot as the numbers indicate.



    I think that's going to be case on any round that is intended for a rifle. Nonetheless, it is a seriously powerful round with great expansion.


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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    Well ......
    It would probably count as being a more or less full powered .357 , but not particularly hot .

    Hornaday's published " handgun " velocity is from an 8in test bbl . That may actually be relevant for its intended purpose of shooting Bambi from a long bbl revolver , but that makes it apples & oranges for all other published handgun data . I had to scour the internet for a while, but found some interesting numbers .

    16-20in bbls - Mid 1700's
    4in bbl - 1400
    2.5in bbl 1300

    Generic factory * 158 gr * routinely gives mid 1700's from rifle bbls . Ie same vels with 18gr heavier bullets . Handloads with slow powders give 1900 plus ( source my 20in M92 and chrono ).

    In the short to medium revolvers , sorta kinda where you would expect, extrapolated between common 125 and 158 loads , but nothing extra hot .

    Indeed, a way cool high tech , high(er) BC bullet for improved trajectories at rifle-ish distances . But what about expansion from revolvers ?

    Not much out there , but did find an interesting anecdotal data point . Plain water in large quantities will give enthusiastic expansion, much moreso that calibrated Gel , or most defensive and/ or hunting .

    A .357 Leverevolution fired ( 2 1/8 in ) fired into a 55gal drum filled with water, smeared off the rubber tip , but zero expansion .
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    I just watched a test with a 4" Barrel using LeveRevolution at 10 yards with an average chrono of 1,350fps. A similar test into denim and ballistic get showed moderate expension, deep penetration (22"+) and fragmentation. A Six Inch barrel will do even better. I'm pleased with my choice. Thanks for your opinions.


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    I just watched a test with a 4" Barrel using LeveRevolution at 10 yards with an average chrono of 1,350fps. A similar test into denim and ballistic get showed moderate expension, deep penetration (22"+) and fragmentation. A Six Inch barrel will do even better. I'm pleased with my choice. Thanks for your opinions.


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    Underwood does 1700fps out the same barrel. People are getting >2300fps out of carbines.
    As stated earlier, if you want HOT .357 Magnum, Underwood is the king.
     

    Cold Steel

    Active Member
    Sep 26, 2006
    801
    Bethesda, MD
    Nothing so arcane and obtuse. Measurable things such as energy released, fps at 25', cavitation on impact, etc. Your basic "stopping power" against bad guys. I couldn't care less about what anyone else thinks except the coroner.
    I agree with Biggfoot44. Against bad guys, you don't need a horrendous load. If you've read Massad Ayoob over the past decade and before, the .357 magnum 125-grain is pretty much the "magic bullet" when it comes to stopping power. Even the .44 magnum won't give you additional stopping power for a variety of reasons, despite Hollywood.

    In his article, here, he writes:

    On the street, the only safe backstop for the defensive handgun’s bullets is the body of the offender. Therefore, it is not exactly responsible to be firing bullets that are likely to shoot through the assailant.​

    This, of course, is obvious and I'm sure it's not news to any seasoned shooter; however, it frequently bears repeating. In another article, he writes:

    One of our greatest modern gun experts, Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC, Ret., once made the observation that the bullet is more important than the gun. The gun, he explained, is merely the launcher. It is the bullet that actually does the job.​

    For years I recommended the S&W Model 13 .357 magnum to anyone who wanted a drawer gun for the home. For those in condos, the gun shot any one of a number of great .38 Special loads, but outdoors or in homes out in rural areas, the .357 was superb for man or beast. It's also great for cross country trips where one makes frequent rest stops.

    It's what makes the .357 so incredibly versatile at everything it does. My point is, the factory 125-grain JHP already is as powerful as it needs to be and that boosting it to even higher levels would be counter productive. (See this outstanding article on the "perfect mix" of stopping power, reliability and accuracy.) The big problem with the 110-grain JHP is that it fragments too much, and the flame eats forcing cones.



    Your Chiappa Rhino 60DS appears to be a fascinating gun and I'd love to hear your views on it when you get it. It looks a bit klunky but looks can be deceptive. Are you going to be using it for hunting, hiking, fishing or anything other than home defense? Do they make holsters for it? Can it be fitted with a scope? What's it feel like in the hand? The gun is supposed to have less recoil, but how does it compare to a standard .357 Magnum with ports? So I'd love to hear your review.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    For years I recommended the S&W Model 13 .357 magnum to anyone who wanted a drawer gun for the home.

    Please stop doing that, you will drive the price up!

    You can still find nearly pristine model 13s that look like they've been sitting in a safe for 40 years, complete with original box etc, which shoot as good or better than recent production revolvers, for very reasonable prices even on the interwebs. I may have lost a few in a boating accident.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,876
    In the very first post , the OP was then specifically seeking reduced penetration as a significant factor . And the 110gr .357 will give similar penetration as the Treasury Load .

    ( Trying to not totally restart the Penetration Wars ) I will observe my comfort zone ( for human only defense ) is more like 10-16 in , but at this late date I won't go out of my way to convince others .

    There * Usta be * lots of offerings of "medium velocity " 125's that had similar recoil to the 110's . But other than Golden Sabres , they're pretty much historical footnotes , while the WWB 110 roll on big time at low price point . ( Rough ballpark , is similar recoil for .38 +P Lead HP , and .357 110gr .)
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Also let me know how you like the Rhino. All I have for wheel guns is a Colt OP 6” right now. I am looking at a conventional .357 as my next wheel gun. A 4” 686 or GP100. After that though I may look at a snubbie .38sp and a Rhino in 5” or 6”. 6” seems a little bulky for one, but I think the total weight is actually pretty close to the weight of my Colt OP because of the heavy use of aluminum in the Rhino. And 6” means if I wanted to, I could use it for hunting.



    Love the Rhino. I have a bad shoulder and I can still tolerate going through a box at the range. Muzzle flip is nearly non-existent. It is CNC'd from a solid block of high strength aluminum alloy. The fit and finish is immaculate. On single action, I have never handled so nice a trigger and I've shot many guns. On double action, you can almost simulate single action if you have a solid trigger finger because once you learn the pull, there is an obvious place to pause.

    If you wear jackets or vests, and you're at least 5'10", you can easily conceal the 60DS in a vertical holster. I had it under a denim vest the other day and I was working on my back for an hour and didn't notice it.
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    As noted above , .357mag , particularly from a six inch bbl potentially has a boatload of energy available , and minor differences at those levels isn't significant .

    As further noted , the designed bullet performance is a much bigger variable than energy per se , once you start approaching 500 ft lb . And at those levels , controlability often becomes an important factor .

    Alas , many of the above sugguestions are skewed more to deer & larger hunting than SD .

    I will partly try to mind read the OP, and partly take his request at face value :

    He DIDN'T mention defense against large animals . Nor looking for a dual purpose , ie hunting capable while still somewhat suitable for SD . ( SilverTip is the role model for that .)

    Further , his initial idea of the G2 has 12in- ish penetration , so presumably he doesn't have a philosophical obsession with deep penetration for its own sake .

    So , using those criteria , still points to 125jhp as starting point .



    The lower right frame was with 1,400fps 357 Magnum. The first three frames were getting warmed up with one hand using 158gr 38 SPL (my typical non-firing hand).
    efa73071ef6472fded1473177bcf9d6c.jpg
     

    Cold Steel

    Active Member
    Sep 26, 2006
    801
    Bethesda, MD
    Man, that gun looks like it's heavy and cumbersome. Is it, or are my eyes deceiving me? If it's 32 ounces, I'd love it. If it's over 40 ounces, not so much.

    I've always wanted a S&W 66 no-dash because of its beauty. This thing is, well, the opposite of beauty. It's got a face only a mother could love. How's the action?
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    It's about 33 Oz. The action is like butter, especially in single action. It's lighter than it looks because the frame is CNC milled from a solid block of aluminum alloy.


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    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    It's about 33 Oz. The action is like butter, especially in single action. It's lighter than it looks because the frame is CNC milled from a solid block of aluminum alloy.


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    Some people dont like the look but I think they are really cool, but I like cheap wine and Glocks so what do I know.

    Do you notice a big difference in muzzle flip with such a low bore axis? Also what distance were you shooting those groups?


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