ID this 1911?

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

trailtoy said:
Wow, lots of info here! I always assumed the frame was not a Colt part because it has no other marks and because the number looks like it is hand stamped. I will get some better pics tomorrow.

Get some REAL GOOD pics of the RIGHT side of frame as this may well tell us what we need to know. The slide no longer has any relavence at this point; it'll be brought back into play after we determine the frame's origin, if we can.

BradMacc82 said:
My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but it also looked like some very faint machining marks on the left side behind the trigger guard below the takedown lever too.

It's out of my depth of knowledge, so I can't make any guesses here.

Yes, there are machine marks from that grip front edge going forward to the guard with a cute li'l idiot scratch too. :lol2:

rj1974 · Sep 1, 2014

OP if you have a camera with a macro setting please take a pic of the area we are talking about and post it . Also around the left side of the trigger guard so we can see if there may have been some proofs buffed out .

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

rj1974 said:
I kind of see what you're talking about , we need better pics . Nope pocket googly thing here I'm on a 17" laptop . I cropped it and lightened it a lil bit to highlight the lighter spots and edges .

rj1974 said:
OP if you have a camera with a macro setting please take a pic of the area we are talking about and post it . Also around the left side of the trigger guard so we can see if there may have been some proofs buffed out .

Now ya' see what I mean regarding the right side of frame. :thumbsup:

I noticed that in the very first post (pics) without proceeding further in the thread. Your crop dusting thing starts to show me that there was nomenclature on the right side that was obliterated.

Magnumite · Sep 1, 2014

"If you can see that proof mark you described, your eyes are better than mine"

Zooming in on the original pic there seemed to be something, I couldn't tell for sure. This was before a member enhanced the image. In that image it appears to be machining marks but it still isn't clear. As one member indicates the serial number on the left side throws out a military Colt frame, I didn't have a chance to check the Poyer manual but I knew the very early guns had the serial number toward the front.

This frame is either altered or other manufacture/foreign copy.

trailtoy · Sep 1, 2014

A little closer, this is as big as MDS will allow, if you would like to see the full size pics send me an email so you can see them on google+.

It does not appear that the right side has been milled or cut down enough to remove any markings. So who made basically unmarked lowers that long ago?

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

Alright, this one's got me stumped; no markings OR removed markings on the right side of frame. My guess is that it's not U.S. made as somebody else pointed out that same possibility though that was in the back of my head last night. The font of the serial# makes it look early as does the frame being a 1911 and NOT a 1911-A1. The only foreign made 1911 (NOT 1911-A1) that comes to mind is the Norwegian Model 1914 and I can't be certain one way or another as I've only seen/handled a few of these in my years to recollect all the information stored in my gray matter. The Argentine/Colt Systemas weren't produced until 1927 IIRC and would (at least SHOULD) be of the 1911-A1 flavor though I'm not truly up on the foreign copies.

dist1646 · Sep 1, 2014

I think it has a Norwegian frame. The numbering on the frame seems to match the style and location used on the Norwegian 1914. The wear on the finish where the slide release is located also matches the Norwegian type slide release.

Inigoes · Sep 1, 2014

possibly a "1912 MODEL 1911 MILITARY" http://www.colt.com/customerservices/serialnumberlookup.aspx

If it's anything like this COlt model 1900 in .38 ACP serial number 4264

Blaster229 · Sep 1, 2014

I know this may not have any relevance, but has anyone noticed the front strap and the checkering? Most likely done later on but thought maybe would give a clue? or not. Hence the Hogue grip to cover up a mess probably.

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

dist1646 said:
I think it has a Norwegian frame. The numbering on the frame seems to match the style and location used on the Norwegian 1914. The wear on the finish where the slide release is located also matches the Norwegian type slide release.

Can anybody post up good clear pics of the left and right sides of a Norwegian Model 1914 so we can see all the markings in their designated locations??? At least this could rule out the M1914 if they don't match up (framewise that is).

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

Blaster229 said:
I know this may not have any relevance, but has anyone noticed the front strap and the checkering? Most likely done later on but thought maybe would give a clue? or not. Hence the Hogue grip to cover up a mess probably.

We pretty well almost certainly know this is a Frankengun but we're trying to follow it's geneology (sp) so to speak.

rj1974 · Sep 1, 2014

If I had to take a guess I am going with Lou's quess that it is a Norwegian frame . All and all it seems to be a put together to look like a NM , I couldn't speculate as to the value .

Here is a pic of a Norwegian , serial number placement matches up .

somd_mustangs · Sep 1, 2014

Here's both sides of a Kongsberg 1914 (this one is from 1945). Note the crown proof on the left trigger guard and no markings on right side. I'm not convinced the S/N font is correct on the OP frame but it doesn't really matter I suppose. If you look closely there appear to be some casting "bubbles" on the frame; my Kongsberg has similar flaws and machining. These were dirt cheap "back in the day" so it kind of makes sense to have used it for a build - not so much anymore.

Pinecone · Sep 1, 2014

Lou45 said:
The Argentine/Colt Systemas weren't produced until 1927 IIRC and would (at least SHOULD) be of the 1911-A1 flavor though I'm not truly up on the foreign copies.

LOTS of info on the Argentine 1911s. Seems all those produced there were A1s.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=68064

somd_mustangs · Sep 1, 2014

That is correct. The Sistema is a licensed copy of the 1927 configuration which is -A1. The "Sistema Colt Modelo 1927" actually started production in 1945. The earlier "Argentine Colts" were built by Colt in Hartford from commercial guns. Argentina had a long history with the 1911 dating back to 1914 IIRC, mostly smallish lots until the big purchase in 1927 that merited special dedicated S/N's that causes all the confusion with the DGFM Sistema's.

trailtoy · Sep 1, 2014

I would agree that the number placement matches the Norwegian style and if so it would be 1923 vintage. I haven't found any with numbers this low to see if they have the same hand stamped look as this one. One other clue is the numbered ejector. Seems just about every part is numbered on the Norwegian guns.

somd_mustangs · Sep 1, 2014

... (wish it was mine) ...

Magnumite · Sep 1, 2014

The Argentine guns are also serial numbered on the right side, behind the slide stop pin as with our 1911. No manufacturer mark. I would agree to a high probability of an early Norwegian gun. The OP's frame has a very similar frame grip safety tang profile to the Norway gun pictured just before this post.

Lou45 · Sep 1, 2014

Now we seem to be possibly zeroing in on something here. Another big question:
Will U.S.G.I. 1911 parts interchange with the Norwegian M1914???

trailtoy · Sep 1, 2014

Lou, according to the reading I've done all the parts should interchange between the two guns.

ID this 1911?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

GOA, MSI, NRA

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

Head'n for the hills

God loves you, I don't.

R.I.P.

R.I.P.

Ultimate Member

Attachments

-----

Attachments

Ultimate Member

-----

GOA, MSI, NRA

-----

Attachments

Ultimate Member

R.I.P.

GOA, MSI, NRA

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics