Worth the drive: Berthier 1907/15 find

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  • mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,332
    Catonsville
    -I love finding gems hidden away in places where they don't belong. In this case it was a small gun auction in south central PA where the majority of lots were sporting long arms. There were only 2-3 milsurps and only two of them weren't Bubba'd. A Turkish Mauser, which was of no interest to me, and what I drove 90 miles to see: a French Mle 1907/15 Berthier built by auto manuf. Delaunay Belleville. The auction listing had one dark, vague photo but luckily the description had "Delaunay Belleville military rifle". That was enough to get me to top off the new GTI and hit the road.
    -The auction house was new to me so I called first to ensure they had an FFL and would take my check. Makes things quick and easy. Located in the middle of the countryside,what I call Daisyville, the parking lot was a sea of pickups which in my eyes was a good thing. Lots of camo clothing inside told me everyone was there for the sporting rifles and shotguns. Lucky for me the Berthier was in lot 4 so I didn't have to wait long. Perfect 'cause there wasn't anything else there I wanted to bid on. Get in and out quickly if possible.
    -Gotta say that this bunch was probably the least social gang I've ever run across in decades of auctions. I got stink eye from the moment I entered the hall (which was an ancient roller skating rink in a previous life!). I'd like to think of myself as a friendly sort but this bunch didn't care much for a stranger in their midst. Fine then, I'm not here on a mission to make friends anyway!
    -Went straight to the Berthier and it was very clean, with crisp DB marked stock cartouche and all matching numbers. The only down side was that it had a very tidy duffle bag cut under the middle band which didn't phase me as that could be easily fixed (and it has been already). DB only built Berthier rifles in 1916, 1917 and 1918. This was the 3rd I'd seen come to market in a decade and I bought one of those. So I only had the last sale from a couple of months ago to guide me on current value. That example was even nicer and hammered at a stunning $1700. So when the dust settled after 60 seconds I damned near fell over when I got it for sub $200. Never saw that coming! Guess I was right in my assessment of the situation.
    -Quickly paid up and took care of the license stuff (damned glad I could use my 03 'cause they were already experiencing problems with the PICs system, bet it was a long day there after I left). Raced to the GTI before anyone could yell "thief!" and sped home, shocked at my good fortune.
    -Delaunay Belleville was a luxury auto manufacturer who was the only French private contractor in WWI (Remington was the other private contractor building Berthiers, approx 7k overall). They built approx. 190 thousand Berthier Mle 1907-15 rifles (vs over 400K and 1.5 million for Chatellerault and St Etienne respectively). A decent number with the majority of them built in 1917, the same year this example was built. Can't explain why they seem so difficult to find.
    -Got my eyes already set on another possible treasure, in Daisyville again. Don't know if lightning will strike twice, don't think I can be that lucky. But it'll be another adventure if nothing else. Besides, love driving the GTI in the countryside, makes it all the more enjoyable.
     

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    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,332
    Catonsville
    Incredibly clean! All those mutinies in 1917 must have saved it from getting dinged up.

    Nice to see someone else here remembers the upheavals in the miserable, blood soaked French trenches in April of 1917. I know it's popular in the US to label the French soldier as cowardly but what they went through in WWI was unimaginable. I don't call them treasonous but exhausted and broken after the senseless offensive that spring that cost so many lives for no gain. This after 1.3 million French dead in the years leading up to that point.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,332
    Catonsville
    Congrats on both the rifle and new ride, my friend!

    -When the SAABaru was at the point of retiring I had a decision to make. Another boring but sensible ride? My Germanic background would have me make the fuel efficient and cost effective choice. But I clearly remember a morning drive into work in my classic Porsche 924S, a ride that never fails to put a smile on my face. Sitting at my desk I found myself always looking out to it in the parking lot. Then it hit me that I want that feeling in my daily driver. A car that you find yourself looking back at as you walk away from it. That's how I ended up with the VW. Not the cheapest to operate (insurance for a GTI is steep, even at 62 yrs old with a spotless driving record). But the juice is worth the squeeze. It's therapy in motion, even if I'm constantly flirting with a traffic ticket.
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,703
    -When the SAABaru was at the point of retiring I had a decision to make. Another boring but sensible ride? My Germanic background would have me make the fuel efficient and cost effective choice. But I clearly remember a morning drive into work in my classic Porsche 924S, a ride that never fails to put a smile on my face. Sitting at my desk I found myself always looking out to it in the parking lot. Then it hit me that I want that feeling in my daily driver. A car that you find yourself looking back at as you walk away from it. That's how I ended up with the VW. Not the cheapest to operate (insurance for a GTI is steep, even at 62 yrs old with a spotless driving record). But the juice is worth the squeeze. It's therapy in motion, even if I'm constantly flirting with a traffic ticket.

    at this point in life, you gotta do what makes you happy :)
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,101
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Great pickup, and that stock rondel is in beautiful condition!

    Is it missing anything (clearing rod, etc?) I can point you in the right direction if need be.
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,332
    Catonsville
    Great pickup, and that stock rondel is in beautiful condition!

    Is it missing anything (clearing rod, etc?) I can point you in the right direction if need be.

    Missing nothing! Yup, cut was perfectly made under the middle band so it was easy to repair. She's sporting a later sling, will keep an eye out for an earlier, WWI period correct sling (bid on a couple recently but they went stronger than I wanted to pay for).
     

    mawkie

    C&R Whisperer
    Sep 28, 2007
    4,332
    Catonsville
    Hahahaha. Guess when they threw them down, it was on grass. Hahaha your comment was brilliant. Haha

    What happened was about 25% of units refused to follow idiotic orders that had them slaughtered on German MGs. They didn't walk away or follow leftists who tried their best to incite the troops as was happening on the Russian front. Otherwise France could have followed Russia into civil war and communism (if the Germans didn't overthrow them first).
    The French military kept it a secret for obvious reasons and most didn't find out about the issue until after the war's end. In 1917 General Petain instituted reforms that addressed many of the issues, successfully keeping the trenches manned until the end of the war. Unfortunately there were some executions also, which in hindsight were ill advised. The Stanley Kubrick movie Paths of Glory is based on the policy of the French army to execute as a method of "motivating" troops that were thought to be cowardly or insubordinate.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,101
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Missing nothing! Yup, cut was perfectly made under the middle band so it was easy to repair. She's sporting a later sling, will keep an eye out for an earlier, WWI period correct sling (bid on a couple recently but they went stronger than I wanted to pay for).

    I'm telling you, check out Naturabuy.fr. I got both the front band spring I needed AND the proper front band from there without any issue. The only caveat is that it's best to just ask upfront if they ship to the US. Some do, some don't. Google Translate does a great job of translating the pages into English if you are using Chrome.

    The carbine rear band I get from Denmark is correct in terms of the M16 carbines, but for some reason, with the duffle cut forend on the stock I got from you, I need a 1907/15 rear band (without the notch) which is coming from France as well. Most guys will ship via post if you want which is definitely cheaper and just about as fast as the USPS or Fed Ex are these days.
     

    bigmancrisler

    2A Preacher
    Jun 4, 2020
    1,263
    Martinsburg, WV
    I'm telling you, check out Naturabuy.fr. I got both the front band spring I needed AND the proper front band from there without any issue. The only caveat is that it's best to just ask upfront if they ship to the US. Some do, some don't. Google Translate does a great job of translating the pages into English if you are using Chrome.

    The carbine rear band I get from Denmark is correct in terms of the M16 carbines, but for some reason, with the duffle cut forend on the stock I got from you, I need a 1907/15 rear band (without the notch) which is coming from France as well. Most guys will ship via post if you want which is definitely cheaper and just about as fast as the USPS or Fed Ex are these days.


    Thanks for linking that!!! I’ve been trying to find parts for a lebel for a couple months now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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