Ruger 22/45 for SD?

ihriec · Jul 7, 2016

Went to the range today and shot my Ruger 22/45. I am more accurate with this gun than my primary self defense guns: SP101 and Remington R1 1911 45. I’m not a great shot but I can put 10 shots on target (2-3” group) at 15 feet within 3 seconds and 20 shots on target within 10 seconds. I think it’s easier for me to stay on target because there is no recoil.

My question is: Should I consider this a primary self defense gun or consider it as a backup?

StantonCree · Jul 7, 2016

Most SD shootings at VERY close range......stick with a larger caliber IMHO.

davsco · Jul 7, 2016

pretty sure a .22 has killed every animal (including humans) on earth so i certainly wouldn't want to be shot with one. that said, .22 just isn't a great choice for a primary HD/SD weapon. small diameter, slow bullet, little energy, little penetration. plus not even sure if any HD/SD bullets are made for the .22? personally 9mm is the min handgun caliber for me.

Kman · Jul 7, 2016

In my mind, home defense = short barrel shotty.

But sitting in my easy chair watching tv...I'd settle for it by my side.

StantonCree · Jul 7, 2016

Kman said:
In my mind, home defense = short barrel shotty.

But sitting in my easy chair watching tv...I'd settle for it by my side.

Your opinion doesn't count you confederate flag waver :lol2:

Sorry for the thread jack.

I'll also add, to keep this on track, any gun is better then no gun so while I say larger caliber......do what your comfortable with.

lazarus · Jul 7, 2016

I mean, it certainly could, but I have to agree. IMHO, 22lr is barely sufficient from a rifle, but on a pistol, you are talking about 30% less energy, which is going to impact penetration and expansion. As with everyone else, I'd hate to get hit with it, but it just doesn't have much stopping power. I'd consider it on a short rifle level because of the advantages of a rifle in a HD/SD scenario, but a pistol is easy to gain control over and doesn't give you much to fight back with if empty, jammed or grappling. A 22lr rifle would at least, also much higher ammo capacity.

With something like a .45, getting 2-3 shots off with even one connecting is going to absolutely ruin someone's whole life with them lunging at you and your target area is going to be about 10" x 20" for the vital area, which absolutely can be missed, at 15ft or even 5ft in a high stress situation, but odds are good recoil won't be what throws you off target at ranges that close and I'd rather have 2-3 shots from something like a .45 compared to maybe 4-5 from a 22lr to stop someone. A 22lr I'd much rather for a scenario where someone was attempting to get in to my home, but for someone IN my home, .45. Or a shotgun. Really a shotgun or short carbine in something like .223 or 7.62x39 would be my ideal in home SD weapon and absolutely work perfectly well outside the home as well...but, you know, not nearly as concealable.

Kman · Jul 7, 2016

mpdc4511 said:
Your opinion doesn't count you confederate flag waver

Sorry for the thread jack.

I'll also add, to keep this on track, any gun is better then no gun so while I say larger caliber......do what your comfortable with.

I prefer to think of it as my Malcolm "X" thank you.

Melnic · Jul 7, 2016

davsco said:
pretty sure a .22 has killed every animal (including humans) on earth so i certainly wouldn't want to be shot with one. that said, .22 just isn't a great choice for a primary HD/SD weapon. small diameter, slow bullet, little energy, little penetration. plus not even sure if any HD/SD bullets are made for the .22? personally 9mm is the min handgun caliber for me.

Is Killing the same thing as disabling quickly?
I"m not a SD expert but what I've learned is the objective is to keep your opponent from getting a critical shot off at you. Not sure I"d be using a 22 for that.

Target shooting at 25 yards, yes, my 22 pistols are the most accurate of what I have.

MostlyHarmless · Jul 7, 2016

In a defensive situation, you will likely be just as inaccurate with a 22 as you would be with a larger caliber- unless you're the guy who does get attacked by paper targets.

That said, the weapon you practice most with will be a better option- even if it makes a smaller bang than something else.

Lucca1 · Jul 7, 2016

Not my first choice but I can imagine that 3-4 Velocitors in the noggin would be sufficient to dissuade an attacker.

There is a thread from last year dedicated to this topic.

mopar92 · Jul 7, 2016

The main reason I would never consider using a rimfire for SD/HD is because of the rimfire ignition, it's simply not as reliable as centerfire.

The .22 also lacks penetration and expansion the two critical factors in good defensive ammo.

Have you taken any professional instruction? There's some very easy ways to reduce recoil with stance vs modifying the firearm.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 7, 2016

Well since we didn't hear any mention of severe arthritis, or orther substantial disability , the answer is some coaching from a knowledegable instructor. Some instruction and practice, you should be able to shoot well with either the 1911 or the SP101 w/ .38+p , or likely both.

5.56blaster · Jul 7, 2016

Knocking down any living thing is done better with a bigger heavier bullet. Basic ballistics would recommend that you use a heavy bullet when trying to stop something from bothering you, that's why the .45 ACP at 230gr. is a good man stopper, verses 40gr. in the .22LR. I would think that a better choice would be a 9mm or greater, using a round meant for self defense. As a retired instructor, practice a lot with whatever you decide to use. I hope you never need to use it.

jawn · Jul 7, 2016

...maybe you should get something in 9mm.

lazarus · Jul 8, 2016

jawn said:
...maybe you should get something in 9mm.

Agreed, I'd look at a 9mm handgun in .45acp

good guy 176 · Jul 8, 2016

As others have said, any .22 lr for self defense would be a bad choice. If you value your skin, use a 9 mm or larger caliber. Me, I prefer the Colt King Cobra in .357.

Lew--Ranger63

Magnumite · Jul 8, 2016

Biggfoot44 said:
Well since we didn't hear any mention of severe arthritis, or orther substantial disability , the answer is some coaching from a knowledegable instructor. Some instruction and practice, you should be able to shoot well with either the 1911 or the SP101 w/ .38+p , or likely both.

^^^ this, mentioned by others also. 22 firearms are great guns for several purposes but for self defense they are at best a deep cover back up back up gun. They are an excellent training tool. Practice your defensive shooting with the 22/45, then follow up with the R1 or SP just afterward to leave THAT as the last impression of defensive shooting. If ammo costs are an issue there is always reloading, not too much expense with an entry level kit. Dry fire practice at home. Dry fire ten times at the range to connect the home dry fire with range work. Ball and dummy drills during live fire. There is no free lunch if you want to be proficient with an adequate defensive firearm.

Pinecone · Jul 8, 2016

Somewhere online is an analysis of first round stopping in real gun fights.

.22LR was not that bad.

But my concern is, if the first round is not enough (crazy, drugs, etc), how many will be needed. And IMO, .22LR will take a LOT of hits.

GUNSnROTORS · Jul 8, 2016

ihriec said:
Went to the range today and shot my Ruger 22/45. I am more accurate with this gun than my primary self defense guns: SP101 and Remington R1 1911 45. I’m not a great shot but I can put 10 shots on target (2-3” group) at 15 feet within 3 seconds and 20 shots on target within 10 seconds. I think it’s easier for me to stay on target because there is no recoil.

My question is: Should I consider this a primary self defense gun or consider it as a backup?

Not a great shot? 200-round/minute rate of fire into a 2-3" group @ 15', even with a 22/45, is not too shabby.

Personally, I'd pair your 22/45 with your R1 1911 for training. That's what the 22/45 was designed for. Plus, I'm a shameless 1911 fan ... :party29:

That being said, agree with training and 9mm(+) advice above. Have read several articles citing data where 22lr hits achieve 1-shot kills on humans up into the 35-40% range. Not good enough, IMO (your ability to achieve rapid, accurate hits notwithstanding). Plus, these data don't usually specify the time from hit to incapacitation. The bad guy might shoot back (or shoot first), so placing greater emphasis on quick incapacitation against an armed attacker could be critical for your own survivability. Central nervous system hits would be the only way to reliably ensure rapid incapacitation with a 22lr, even with hyper velocity or newer SD frangible rounds. Any zone 5 hit with an SD in the 9-45 class should stall or end an attack quickly ... and give you more time to recover for follow-ups if required.

mpdc4511 said:
Your opinion doesn't count you confederate flag waver

Sorry for the thread jack.

Kman said:
I prefer to think of it as my Malcolm "X" thank you.

That was the ultimate thread jack. "GD America" Jeremiah Wright has joined the forum. :facepalm:

ihriec · Jul 8, 2016

Thanks for all your responses. Based on your recommendations, I think I'll continue to practice with my 1911 and SP101 and get some training/coaching. I'll continue to practice with my 22/45 but keep it as a backup. I might also try my wife's P95.

Ruger 22/45 for SD?

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