Byron Smith case/Little Falls, MN Shootings

llkoolkeg · Apr 22, 2014

Here is the latest from today=> http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-minn-homeowner-lay-wait-teens-163213122.html

More background=> http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/stor...ictim-if-teens-hadnt-broken-in-theyd-be-alive

Kind of an interesting case that lessons can certainly be learned from.

tapeman1 · Apr 22, 2014

Those kids were scumbags no doubt, but that was straight murder.

clandestine · Apr 22, 2014

A mans home is his castle. You break in you get to die.

eruby · Apr 22, 2014

Not sure why the girk walked down the stairs after hearing shots. I'd have beat feet, but I'm not a criminal.

with his Mini-14, a .22-caliber revolver, some energy bars and a bottle of water,

Cornerstone of any nutritiou sambush meal. :cool:

Inigoes · Apr 22, 2014

No laws were broken, regarding self defense. The teens broke into the home, and searched the homeowner out (in the basement).

As for the one to the chest, and one to the head; yeah, that was a little overboard.

Mr H · Apr 22, 2014

Wife brought this one to me last night.

I think the only question here is one of "how dead" the invaders should have been made.

Factoring in the previous break-ins, etc., I guess there could be a "reasonable human endurance" factor, but at first look it seems to be (pardon the pun) overkill.

niftyvt · Apr 22, 2014

clandestine said:
A mans home is his castle. You break in you get to die.

This.

CharlieFoxtrot · Apr 22, 2014

If no other lesson is learned: talk to a lawyer before making any substantial statements to the police.

Gryphon · Apr 22, 2014

So "Brady had burglarized Smith's property at least twice in the months before he was killed," so I figure he probably got what he deserved just a little late. However, a "good clean finishing shot to the head" for the girl after she was already down? I have to admit that certainly blurs the lines somewhat even though she was inside the house committing a felony.

Oh, by the way, the article reports the two were well known and involved in sports :sad20:

! AND DRUGS, AND AUTO THEFT AND FELONY BREAKING & ENTERING OF AT LEAST TWO HOMES, and now having played stupid games they won their stupid prizes.

The two kids didn't have to break in (again), and they didn't have to go downstairs. So I am not convinced you can be "laying in wait" while lawfully occupying your own home, and enjoying a beverage and snacks, reading a good book, and fondling your favorite loaded firearm. He wasn't in the bushes outside the house with an infra-red optic, he didn't hide in the bushes at their homes, he wasn't an interstate sniper - he was supposed to be enjoying the comfort and security of his own home until the two teenage douches showed up. It sounds like with 20/20 hindsight the guy could have done things differently, but so could have the two dead teenagers.

Inigoes · Apr 22, 2014

Gryphon said:
So "Brady had burglarized Smith's property at least twice in the months before he was killed," so I figure he probably got what he deserved just a little late. However, a "good clean finishing shot to the head" for the girl after she was already down? I have to admit that certainly blurs the lines somewhat even though she was inside the house committing a felony.

Oh, by the way, the two were well known and involved in sports ! AND DRUGS, AND AUTO THEFT AND FELONY BREAKING & ENTERING OF AT LEAST TWO HOMES, and now having played stupid games they won their stupid prizes.

The two kids didn't have to break in (again), and they didn't have to go downstairs. So I am not convinced you can be "laying in wait" while lawfully occupying your own home, and enjoying a beverage and snacks, reading a good book, and fondling your favorite loaded firearm. He wasn't in the bushes outside the house with an infra-red optic, he didn't hide in the bushes at their homes, he wasn't an interstate sniper - he was supposed to be enjoying the comfort and security of his own home until the two teenage douches showed up.

Dragging the first body onto the tarp to keep the basement tidy, probably shows the premeditation...

Gryphon · Apr 22, 2014

Inigoes said:
Dragging the first body onto the tarp to keep the basement tidy, probably shows the premeditation...

Maybe? But premeditation requires context. Every time I wear a gun its with the premeditated thought I will use it to defend myself if necessary.

So the tarp might just as well suggest he was a neat freak and was concerned about how hard it would be to get the blood out of the carpet or concrete floor.

But, the fact that he was reported to have sat back down after the first shoot, and that the girl still came down the steps after the first shots, tells me we don't have all the facts. Now, if he had lured them into the house with an offer of a summer job, or some drugs, or whatever, and did this that would be entirely different. For now it sounds like he had good reason to suspect he might have trouble (having been broken into twice before over the last few months), he was prepared, and the "teenagers" (I am still thinking of the media's boy pics of Travon when I type that) put themselves in a really bad situation.

somd_mustangs · Apr 22, 2014

Inigoes said:
Dragging the first body onto the tarp to keep the basement tidy, probably shows the premeditation...

The one article said he also told police he dragged the girl over to the tarp after shooting her twice in the head, dumped her on top of the boy and shot her in the head again to finish her off. That's not good if it's accurate. It also said he had an audio recorder setup which may not help his cause depending on what it actually recorded. On the surface it sounds righteous but there's enough squirrely stuff here to be cautious about supporting his cause. There were also comments about him not reporting it for a day but that bears further confirmation.

No question it wouldn't have happened if the kids had stayed off his lawn though.

44man · Apr 22, 2014

clandestine said:
A mans home is his castle. You break in you get to die.

x100

no question in my mind they should die for breaking in and stealing.

llkoolkeg · Apr 22, 2014

Although it sounds initially as if the homeowner went a little overboard, when I think back at all the times I had my vehicles and property broken into when I lived in the DC area and in Frederick, I recall being enraged to the point of being capable of almost anything. When the sanctity of your locked property is violated REPEATEDLY and nobody besides you seems to give a rat's a$$ when thousands of dollars worth of your irreplaceable property is stolen and vandalized, it lights a fire within you that is hard to extinguish...especially when you are working hard for crappy wages, playing by society's rules and getting nowhere for your trouble.

Although I was younger and somewhat more impetuous than I am now when these events occurred, I must say that I loaded up a rifle and pistol and performed stakeouts over my property on several occasions. I cursed the fact afterwards that my stakeouts all went unrewarded and I never caught any of the thieves in the act but perhaps that is the only reason I am not sitting in jail right now. How does that song go...some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers.

eruby · Apr 23, 2014

Inigoes said:
Dragging the first body onto the tarp to keep the basement tidy, probably shows the premeditation...

Or a bit of a Felix Unger streak.

Regardless of the force used, if these two weren't crooks, they wouldn't be corpses.

gatopolis11 · Apr 23, 2014

It makes you think what would have happened if the teens would have been arrested and locked up for the prior acts

traveller · Apr 23, 2014

eruby said:
Not sure why the girk walked down the stairs after hearing shots. I'd have beat feet, but I'm not a criminal.

There were 11 minutes between both shootings. I suspect she was the lookout outside and never heard the shots from the basement.

Indiana Jones · Apr 23, 2014

She was hot. But guess what, break into a home and a nutjob may be what you get. Screw em.

Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.

john_bud · Apr 23, 2014

There was also an extended time lag between the shootings and the reporting of the shooting. Like a day later!

Lots to learn here. Don't do "finishing shots" !! Shoot to stop an attack. duh.
Call the coppers AND your lawyer, then dummy up till the lawyer shows.

He would have certainly stopped getting robbed by those two had he just shot once or even twice without a crazy stupid "clean finishing shot" .I really just don't get that at all.

The criminals may or may not have "deserved" to die, but the homeowner did not "deserve" to be robbed!

Bagpiperer · Apr 24, 2014

john_bud said:
Shoot to stop an attack.

It is not inconceivable that an assailant would remain a threat until unconsciousness, especially if there was a weapon involved.

This, however, seems like murder, largely because of the defendant's "good, clean finishing shot." If he indeed moved the girl before firing the fatal shot, a good case could be made for murder 1. Murder 2, possibly, for shooting the boy, or more likely lesser-included manslaughter.

Byron Smith case/Little Falls, MN Shootings

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