NPRM - Definition of Frame / Receiver

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I think that's an accurate assessment. All it'll accomplish is to make people with homemade firearms much less likely to ever take them to a smith for repair.

    I don’t think that is all it’ll accomplish (the NPRM as a whole). I think it’ll effectively kill 80% moving forward.

    Or at least we will see how many people were buying them so they could “make” a firearm be those buying them because they could order them online or at a gun show and didn’t need to pay or wait for a background check. Nothing wrong with that. I’ve mostly bought 80s because here it is infinitely longer, more work and cost to buy a stripped Glock frame and build what I want than it is to just buy a poly80, get it shipped to me and then machine it and assemble the gun I wanted.

    Hell right now you can’t find stripped Glock frames if you wanted to build the gun from scratch.

    I doubt 80s will go away even with ATF’s requirements. But I suspect that the volume of sales will plummet. In MD if they are just treated as other and over the counter, probably still popular.
     
    One wonders at what point a meaningful percentage of peaceable but free men and women will no longer give a flying fvck about what bureaucrats say what and when they say it, and what happens after that point is reached.

    Some of us are already there and have been for quite a while. There are millions of us who simply refuse to comply...No one should...
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,948
    Marylandstan
    NPRM?
    On May 7, 2021, the Attorney General signed ATF proposed rule 2021R-05, Definition of “Frame or Receiver” and Identification of Firearms.

    NOT law. AG has no authority to sign into law.
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    Regulations are not law but can carry the de facto force of law until and unless overturned by the judicial system.

    THEY just cannot wait to get this into the neutered court system where chance favors an Uber liberal jurist who will rule in their favor.

    Rinse. Repeat.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    NPRM?


    NOT law. AG has no authority to sign into law.

    NPRM = Notice of proposed rule making.

    Once signed and published in the federal registrar. At which point comments are collected for, IIRC 90 days. The agency then has 30 days to consider and finalize the rule before either rescinding them, or finalizing them.

    AG signing it, just means it can be officially published in the federal registrar, not that they have force yet. Regulations have to be signed by the head of the agency.

    Policy can be signed by the agency head's designate/delegated official (generally a deputy commissioner/secretary).
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    BTW, reading through the whole darned document I finally found this as a footnote.

    “Under this rule, licensed collectors would only need to mark PMFs they receive or otherwise acquire that are defined as “curios or relics.” See 27 CFR 478.11 (definitions of “firearm” and “curios or relics”).“

    So that answers my question. The ATF doesn’t see an FFL-03 has having to mark their PMFs. Though I suppose once they become old enough they’d need to. But I also assume based on that language, they’d only need to enter it when acquire or disposed of if they are 50 years of age.

    It does make me wonder, so the ATF sees an FFL-06, manufacturer of ammunition, as needing to mark and record keep their PMFs?

    (Don’t answer that. I am surprised they mentioned C&R as being sort of exempt from this marking and record keeping. I fully expected them to say “bend over”)
     

    wabbit

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2010
    5,205
    This is a bad regulation but are they accepting only comments from licensed FFLs? Will they just disregard comments from unlicensed individuals?
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    This is a bad regulation but are they accepting only comments from licensed FFLs? Will they just disregard comments from unlicensed individuals?

    No they are accepting comments from everyone. They then need to disposition everyone's comments, which may take a while. For the bump stock rule, the NPRM was introduced on 29 March 2018, while the final rule was not issued until 26 December 2018. The exact length of time will depend on the number of comments and the nature of those comments.

    Submitting comments never hurts.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    No they are accepting comments from everyone. They then need to disposition everyone's comments, which may take a while. For the bump stock rule, the NPRM was introduced on 29 March 2018, while the final rule was not issued until 26 December 2018. The exact length of time will depend on the number of comments and the nature of those comments.

    Submitting comments never hurts.

    Not necessarily. If they do it right, it will. But the FCC under Pai/Trump effectively ignored all public commentary on net neutrality proposed rule and put it in to effect toot sweet.
     

    bigmancrisler

    2A Preacher
    Jun 4, 2020
    1,263
    Martinsburg, WV
    We only have to go back 80 years for the answer.

    ab274dc53d6dc9cf0acef297884f94d1.jpg


    Remember......it’s for your safety.


    This^^^^


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    bigmancrisler

    2A Preacher
    Jun 4, 2020
    1,263
    Martinsburg, WV
    I’m confused, since this is “technically” law, what happens if we just say **** it and don’t do it? They’re unmarked for a reason. What are they going to do? Come to every single persons house and search for weapons like it’s Iraq?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    No they are accepting comments from everyone. They then need to disposition everyone's comments, which may take a while. For the bump stock rule, the NPRM was introduced on 29 March 2018, while the final rule was not issued until 26 December 2018. The exact length of time will depend on the number of comments and the nature of those comments.

    Submitting comments never hurts.

    I would, if you could actually find it on regulations.gov! When you follow the link from the ATF page, it takes you to regulations.gov, but not the actual comment section. A search for the 2021R-05 brings up nothing.

    [UPDATE]: Atlantic Firearms (Bless you, boys) posted a video on this latest idiocy, and in the comments apparently someone e-mail ATF and got the following response:

    "The rule will publish this week (most likely Friday) in the Federal Register. Once it publishes, the comment period will begin and you will be able to comment at regulations.gov by searching for 2021R-05.
    Thank you."

    So... Comment period better be 90 days from 5/14, then; they're probably hoping everyone'll forget about it over the weekend if they slip it in on a Friday.
     

    MossPumper

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2020
    370
    VA (Western)
    It is always going to be something that they try to change.
    Why do people act like this is such a big surprise when it comes to our current regime?
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Not necessarily. If they do it right, it will. But the FCC under Pai/Trump effectively ignored all public commentary on net neutrality proposed rule and put it in to effect toot sweet.

    The FCC net neutrality NPRM was issued in April 2017. The final rule was issued in Feb 2018. Not exactly fast.

    The political implications of any proposed rule is likely to have already been factored into the rule. Barring any unforeseen politics, the numbers of people that like the rule or dislike it are going to have the least effect on the outcome.

    The most effective comments will be those addressing the feasibility and legality of the rule. Making the same comment a million times does not change the impact of the comment. Everyone has a different perspective and you may be able to provide some missing perspective.

    There may need to be a lawsuit filed over this issue. In order for the lawsuit to be effective, the issues need to have been addressed in the comments. This is why making comments matter.
     
    Jun 4, 2015
    71
    The immediate takeaway is that you can't have a jig and a blank in the same shipment, sort of like a BP revolver and conversion cylinder. So you'd have to ship them separately. Other than raising the cost slightly, it accomplishes nothing.

    However, rules on transfer and potentially numbering will likely make most FFLs avoid transferring them at all, which is one of the goals.

    And we're back to, "Well it's a firearm if the inspector says it is, but not if he doesn't. We know it when we see it."

    Which will scare even more honest people away.

    Meanwhile, gangs will still or make whatever they want. "Hey, my bro works in a machine shop and can do stuff after hours. Give me a blueprint."

    If they actually try to rewrite law--the purview of Congress--then it's immediately actionable in court. But given Kavanaugh is a statist ******* who loves him some government, it's iffy whether it gets a fair hearing or "Chevron deference. Who are we to question the bureaucrats?"
     

    Bohemian

    Member
    Nov 7, 2009
    60
    IANAL - I still don't understand if this will cover existing AR 80% or P80 80% items.

    Chris

    IF it looks like a firearm receiver, it has to have a serial number applied by an FFL...

    No grandfather clause...

    it's Gun Control by Exective Fiat... Biden demanded it and the ATF delivered...

    It's a good thing Trump did not set the precedent for Gun Control by Executive Fiat by demanding & getting a bump stock ban from the ATF that's still in the courts, without a temporary stay on enforcement or a grandfather clause turning millions of law abiding u.s. citizens into instant felons overnight...
    Sarchasm.


    BumpstockCase.com
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    It's a good thing Trump did not set the precedent for Gun Control by Executive Fiat by demanding & getting a bump stock ban from the ATF that's still in the courts, without a temporary stay on enforcement or a grandfather clause turning millions of law abiding u.s. citizens into instant felons overnight...

    You'd have preferred the alternative that that regulatory move prevented? Really? Why?
     

    cantstop

    Pentultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2012
    8,161
    MD
    It's all ok. If this is enacted, there will still be coat hangers and such available on eBay, Etsy and others...
     

    Desert84eagle

    Member
    Nov 22, 2011
    68
    MontCo
    This is yet another infringement that will make ZERO difference to criminals for whom possession is already illegal. This will only serve to extend more government control over the people and only affects law abiding gun owners.

    True that

    WTF is happening to our country?
     

    Viper385

    Member
    Jan 17, 2018
    18
    And about 2 additional weeks to find and clean up all of the aluminum chips the router throws.

    I've heard that using a disposable painters coverall/zip up suit really helps keep them from getting attached to you. Then just vacuum up the floor and table every few passes with a shop vac helps keep them from getting everywhere...again...so I've heard. ;)
     

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