Storing ammo - long term

I put all mine in Military ammo cans or MTM ammo crates drop in a desiccant pack for the really long term storage , I have some Remington Viper 22 that I picked up in 1983 that's been stored that way and I was shooting some yesterday with no problems .

Ponder_MD said:

I'd like to find a storage solution that would allow me to make use of an uncontrolled crawl space. The crawl space is always dry (as in flooding) but is exposed to outside humidity and temperatures.

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Yes. Build a sealed, insulated storage box and use a portable A/C-heat pump unit to keep it at a steady temperature.

I sure as heck wouldn't want to store anything like ammo in a crawl space ever. My in-laws crawl space, which is about 4' tall and half buried and does have foam board insulating the walls (and R-19 between the house and the crawl space) runs from about +10F above ambient in the winter and about -10F in the summer. Humidity stays basically at ambient. My FIL tried running a 80L dehumidifer down there that emptied in to a drain pipe. It helped some, but sucked power and kept humidity only about 10-15% below ambient in the summer time.

Like running 200-300kwh a month (about $30-35 a month to run) to keep humidity between 70-80%RH. They are near Ocean City, so I imagine that doesn't help there. He gave up after a summer and finding it made little difference in the house (and he wasn't getting corrosion on things in the crawl space).

And temperature runs from about freezing during a bad cold snap where it might be 20F outside (they almost never see temps under 20F right by the ocean) to summer time during a heat wave it'll be mid 80s when it is pushing upper 90s.

Better than leaving it stored in a shed, but not by a whole heck of a lot.

Good 50 caliber ammo cans with desiccant bags in each. I recently cam across some 12 gauge shells from the 70s shot fine.

All the recommendations are great. But they are all, I did THIS, and it worked great.

But really, has anyone ever had any ammo go bad????? And how was it stored.

Pinecone said:

All the recommendations are great. But they are all, I did THIS, and it worked great.

But really, has anyone ever had any ammo go bad????? And how was it stored.

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Unless you completely neglect your ammo IE keep it in a bucket outside for years, you won't have an issue. I've never seen ammo go bad in my lifetime. Would I shoot ammo from WWI ammo that I dug up somewhere? NO. Would I shoot WWI surplus ammo that was kept indoors? Probably, unless it's valuable. The only type of ammo I could see issues with would be shotgun shells that aren't sealed at the crimp spot. I have some old shotgun ammo I kept in a tool box that I shot a little while ago. It had to have been from the 70's, no special storage and they all worked.

Ammo doesn't come with an expiration date. My dad gave me a coffee can with a 100 rounds of 7.62 NATO from the 60's, it was tarnished and some had rusty spots on them. I took an oily rag cleaned them up and shot them.

What you are worried about is moot unless you plan to leave the ammo to you great X 10 kids 200 years from now. Ammo you buy today will out live you if kept indoors in relatively dry conditions.

I had some 9mm ammo I reloaded back in the mid 90's and had it stored in a ammo can that had good seals and fired some of it last year. It seemed very weak compared to some more recent reloads using the same powder, primers and bullets. Then again I purchased a tuna can of 30 cal sealed in the 60's and it cycled just fine.

vstoval said:

I had some 9mm ammo I reloaded back in the mid 90's and had it stored in a ammo can that had good seals and fired some of it last year. It seemed very weak compared to some more recent reloads using the same powder, primers and bullets. Then again I purchased a tuna can of 30 cal sealed in the 60's and it cycled just fine.

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Temperature is more important than sealing for life of the propellant. The degradation rate of smokeless powder increases exponentially with temperature.

Also, degradation is a factor of specific powder chemistry. Nitrocellulose-based single-base smokeless powders have buffer chemicals that drastically slow the breakdown of the nitrocellulose. But those buffer chemicals are consumable; when they're expended, the powder can rapidly degrade. One of the ways military logisticians determine when to dispose of stored ammo is by verifying the percent of buffer chemical that remains by analyzing a sample of rounds taken from the batch. Double-base powders have even more degradation mechanisms, because degradation of the nitroglycerin content also needs to be measured and may be at a different rate than the NC.

no disrespect, but cartridges were not meant to be oiled

vstoval said:

I had some 9mm ammo I reloaded back in the mid 90's and had it stored in a ammo can that had good seals and fired some of it last year. It seemed very weak compared to some more recent reloads using the same powder, primers and bullets. Then again I purchased a tuna can of 30 cal sealed in the 60's and it cycled just fine.

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Reloads vs factory. Not a real comparison.

Ed Anger said:

no disrespect, but cartridges were not meant to be oiled

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I just wiped off any residue so they would cycle. I used remoil which is not really an oil, just to clean them up. No worries

For what small supply I have, I make use of a few nice condition military ammo cans (with desiccant) in my attached garage, which is an insulated/heated/cooled/dry/finished space that we use as a home school area nowadays. I have a separate and secure area that the kids don't have access to there, and it faces away from any real sunlight coming in the windows.

Bountied said:

Unless you completely neglect your ammo IE keep it in a bucket outside for years, you won't have an issue. I've never seen ammo go bad in my lifetime. Would I shoot ammo from WWI ammo that I dug up somewhere? NO. Would I shoot WWI surplus ammo that was kept indoors? Probably, unless it's valuable. The only type of ammo I could see issues with would be shotgun shells that aren't sealed at the crimp spot. I have some old shotgun ammo I kept in a tool box that I shot a little while ago. It had to have been from the 70's, no special storage and they all worked.

Ammo doesn't come with an expiration date. My dad gave me a coffee can with a 100 rounds of 7.62 NATO from the 60's, it was tarnished and some had rusty spots on them. I took an oily rag cleaned them up and shot them.

What you are worried about is moot unless you plan to leave the ammo to you great X 10 kids 200 years from now. Ammo you buy today will out live you if kept indoors in relatively dry conditions.

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Exactly.

It is not going to hurt to do extra, but unless for very long term storage, it is not required.

I have shot reloads from the 90s without issues. And factory ammo from the 60s. And mil surp from the 40s.

Pinecone said:

Exactly.

It is not going to hurt to do extra, but unless for very long term storage, it is not required.

I have shot reloads from the 90s without issues. And factory ammo from the 60s. And mil surp from the 40s.

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A) Don't store it somewhere hot
B) Don't store it immersed in any liquids
C) DO NOT STORE IT NEAR CLEANSERS!

Follow those 3 steps and you aren't going to need to worry about it in your life time. If stored somewhere hot, it can eventually lead to the propellant breaking down. That is as much or more about granular break down as it is chemical. I've seen some old milsurp where it was stored and hot dry climates where it might not have been safe from ammo that was made in the 40-60s (Somali and Ethiopian surplus) where testing (go check Forgotten weapons, Ian tested some. I've see a few other tests) showed a huge discrepancy in velocity between rounds. In some cases velocity was HIGH indicating overpressure situations as well as some hang fires.

But this is ammo that was likely sitting in a bunker or warehouse that averaged 90-110F almost year round for 60-80 YEARS.

Store it at room temperatures and it can be centuries.

As pointed out earlier, it is a exponential degradation based on temperature. IIRC you double the rate of break down per 10C (18F) change in temperature.

So storing at 68F is going to break down at half the rate of 86F. And at a quarter the rate at 104F.

I mean, if you want it to last for forever, store it in your freezer! (please don't actually store it in your freezer).

Storing immersed in stuff I hope would be obvious.

Cleansers near by is also real bad, because the off gassing if it is able to get in to powder causes it to break down and BAD THINGS HAPPEN. That is how you get smokeless powder to spontaneously combust and/or go boom.

So do not store your powder or loaded rounds in the same closet you keep your cleaning supplies. Do NOT use cleaning products to clean your gun room or gun bench (to be clear, this is NOT a general gun cleaner issue. But it IS an issue with ammonia based and chlorine based cleansers used in household products. A tiny exposure isn't really going to cause a problem if you squirt a bit of windex in your barrel to clean it and your stored powder is over your work bench, but I wouldn't in my gun room still. Better safe than sorry).

lazarus said:

A)
Cleansers near by is also real bad, because the off gassing if it is able to get in to powder causes it to break down and BAD THINGS HAPPEN. That is how you get smokeless powder to spontaneously combust and/or go boom.

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Not sure how exactly how single or double-based propellants are affected by ammonia, but cuprous alloys (i.e. brass) are definitely embrittled and weakened by ammonia. And that leads to a kaboom from case failure. It's not unheard of for exterior copper plumbing to fail from ammonia compounds in bird poo dropped on the pipes.

Store it in an airtight container in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. Done. End of story.

Combloc said:

Store it in an airtight container in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. Done. End of story.

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I thought we were done like 10 post ago...

Bountied said:

I thought we were done like 10 post ago...

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No, this is MDS. We beat dead horses to death.

willtill said:

No, this is MDS. We beat dead horses to death.

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And then beat them some more, just because.

Pinecone said:

And then beat them some more, just because.

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Makes 'em tender; easier to eat one's words, if it comes to that.

willtill said:

No, this is MDS. We beat dead horses to death.

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Only beat dead mules to death. Horses ain’t stubborn enough.