When to stop talking to the police?

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  • Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    We, collectively as a society, have allowed the legislature to so complicate the laws that an average person (let alone a skilled attorney) is unable to follow and abide by them. That's the problem. It comes from the legislatures desire to demonstrate that they are actually dong something.
     

    Apd09

    Active Member
    May 30, 2013
    967
    Westminster, MD
    It is very eye opening. I will remember it forever.


    Agreed, I first saw that 4-5 years ago and any chance I can share it with others while also watching at least once a year just keep it fresh in the mind.

    Hopefully it answered the OPs question.


    Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    I'll answer you with two questions:
    1.If you had some concerns based on the situation that you may be outside the scope of your permit why would the police officer even be aware that you were carrying?
    2. Since it is now a crime to carry outside the scope of your permit the burden is on the State in a prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were outside the scope of your permit. Why make it any easier for them under any circumstance?

    Yep. The only evidence the state is going to have regarding what one is doing at the time will most likely come from one's own mouth. So, the less a person speaks, the better under the above scenario.

    As already mentioned though, best thing to do is not to break the law. If you are going to the part time job, just put the unloaded gun and ammo in the trunk and avoid the hassle.
     

    newq

    101st Poptart Assault BSB
    Mar 6, 2011
    1,592
    Eldersburg, MD
    i can't figure out why people ask these questions.

    I dunno I think the OP like myself just likes to discuss topics that float through his mind. They hold no real world value or consequences, it is just a topic of discussion. A "WHAT IF" if you will.

    Relax a bit. Its just a casual forum for casual discussion. Sometimes there are serious topics in here but for the most part this website is about provoking thought, not pursuing life altering advice. Or atleast I hope to god in times of crisis no one turns to these forums for sound legal advice or if they do i hope they follow the advice to contact an attorney!

    I post what comes to mind, you post what you think and we run our finger around the ideas. I learn alot from other people who have opposing viewpoints. I think many on this forum see every question as a competition and get so hellbent on being right or "more concise" with their answer that they become very critical almost to the point of being cynical. Relax. Enjoy the topics and if you think the poster is an idiot hit the back button and go to the next thread.
     

    PO2012

    Active Member
    Oct 24, 2013
    815
    So that makes it fact? Nope, sorry, incorrect.

    Actually he is correct. Any Police Officer in the state of Maryland with access to METERS can log in to what is called the Maryland Criminal Justice Dashboard. Included in Dashboard is a portal known as MSP Guns. If you have a registered firearm in the state of Maryland I can enter your information and pull up a list of every firearm you have registered in the state. The portal doesn't tell me whether or not you have a license to carry firearms merely whether you have firearms registered in your name and what they are along with their serial number.

    Be advised, however, that a standard check of one's Maryland vehicle registration or driver's license does not bring up whether or not one owns registered firearms, at least not yet. An MSP Guns query must be done separately by the Officer, Deputy or Trooper. There are some states (Tennessee is one of them and there are others) where if you have a CCW it is included in the return on your driver's license so if I run an out of state license through NCIC sometimes there will be a line saying "concealed weapons" or something similar. The exact verbiage varies between states.
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    Actually he is correct. Any Police Officer in the state of Maryland with access to METERS can log in to what is called the Maryland Criminal Justice Dashboard. Included in Dashboard is a portal known as MSP Guns. If you have a registered firearm in the state of Maryland I can enter your information and pull up a list of every firearm you have registered in the state. The portal doesn't tell me whether or not you have a license to carry firearms merely whether you have firearms registered in your name and what they are along with their serial number.



    Be advised, however, that a standard check of one's Maryland vehicle registration or driver's license does not bring up whether or not one owns registered firearms, at least not yet. An MSP Guns query must be done separately by the Officer, Deputy or Trooper. There are some states (Tennessee is one of them and there are others) where if you have a CCW it is included in the return on your driver's license so if I run an out of state license through NCIC sometimes there will be a line saying "concealed weapons" or something similar. The exact verbiage varies between states.


    And I'm sure your used to hearing "METERS is down until further notice". DOH! :)


    Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.
     

    VikingFan65

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2013
    151
    Howard County
    I dunno I think the OP like myself just likes to discuss topics that float through his mind. They hold no real world value or consequences, it is just a topic of discussion. A "WHAT IF" if you will.

    Relax a bit. Its just a casual forum for casual discussion. Sometimes there are serious topics in here but for the most part this website is about provoking thought, not pursuing life altering advice. Or atleast I hope to god in times of crisis no one turns to these forums for sound legal advice or if they do i hope they follow the advice to contact an attorney!

    I post what comes to mind, you post what you think and we run our finger around the ideas. I learn alot from other people who have opposing viewpoints. I think many on this forum see every question as a competition and get so hellbent on being right or "more concise" with their answer that they become very critical almost to the point of being cynical. Relax. Enjoy the topics and if you think the poster is an idiot hit the back button and go to the next thread.
    Bravo
     

    SS396

    Forum LEO whipping post
    Aug 19, 2013
    635
    Frederick County
    I'll bite. I'm not an attorney, but I've been a police officer for many years. I should also say that you could throw any number of additional variables in the scenario that might change my response. I'm simply addressing the very limited information before me.

    If you have a good, understandable reason for having the firearm on you, and it can easily be explained, if it were me, I'd try to explain the situation. They may confiscate the firearm and scrutinize your story, etc. The benifit of this is that it may prevent an arrest. If it appears that your explanation is not working and you are about to be arrested, then I would stop talking and contact an attorney. Understand that right from the start anything you say can be used against you, including your attempt at an explanation. This is the risk you take by talking at all. It's always a judgement call on your part.

    The risk of not offerring an explanation, if you have a good reasonable one, is that you may be arrested if, on the surface, it appears that there's more to the story.

    I'm sure some, including most attorneys, would say right from the start don't say a word. This is the only foolproof way of not incriminating yourself. This is a judgement call on your part. As I said before, if it can be easily explained then this may prevent an arrest, but of course there is no guarantee.

    Bottom line? If I were a career criminal, I wouldn't say a word. Getting locked up is the price of doing business. If I'm a good man who has a reasonable explanation, I might attempt to explain; just know the risks.

    Above all, if you're fortunate enough to have a concealed carry permit, don't abuse it. This won't help the efforts of others to get one (Not saying you are.).

    Don't take this as legal advice because I am not an attorney.
     
    Last edited:

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Actually he is correct. Any Police Officer in the state of Maryland with access to METERS can log in to what is called the Maryland Criminal Justice Dashboard. Included in Dashboard is a portal known as MSP Guns. If you have a registered firearm in the state of Maryland I can enter your information and pull up a list of every firearm you have registered in the state. The portal doesn't tell me whether or not you have a license to carry firearms merely whether you have firearms registered in your name and what they are along with their serial number.

    Be advised, however, that a standard check of one's Maryland vehicle registration or driver's license does not bring up whether or not one owns registered firearms, at least not yet. An MSP Guns query must be done separately by the Officer, Deputy or Trooper. There are some states (Tennessee is one of them and there are others) where if you have a CCW it is included in the return on your driver's license so if I run an out of state license through NCIC sometimes there will be a line saying "concealed weapons" or something similar. The exact verbiage varies between states.

    That is what I was getting at in not so many words.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    VA LE can see CCW license info tied to the registered owner of a vehicle. VA is a free state that doesn't keep lists of a citizen's firearms AFAIK.
     

    Apd09

    Active Member
    May 30, 2013
    967
    Westminster, MD
    Thank you for posting!!



    This is a specific answer to the specific question I asked ("I guess I'm wondering when the investigation makes the turns to evidence that can be used against you?"). So what I say can be used against me before I'm read me my Miranda rights? Please don't take that as I am putting words in your mouth.



    As far as LEO knowing if I have a CCW, I read on that thread where the (IIRC) guy from Florida was pulled over around the Baltimore Tunnel and the LEO knew the person had a CCW when he ran the name or tag. True or not, I have no clue but sounds like it can be found out in a jiffy if the LEO wanted to know.


    It is a Miranda warning, you have those rights every minute of every day and they are not magically conferred upon you by the police during an arrest. If you did not watch the video I posted please go watch it.


    Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Thank you for posting!!

    This is a specific answer to the specific question I asked ("I guess I'm wondering when the investigation makes the turns to evidence that can be used against you?"). So what I say can be used against me before I'm read me my Miranda rights? Please don't take that as I am putting words in your mouth.

    As far as LEO knowing if I have a CCW, I read on that thread where the (IIRC) guy from Florida was pulled over around the Baltimore Tunnel and the LEO knew the person had a CCW when he ran the name or tag. True or not, I have no clue but sounds like it can be found out in a jiffy if the LEO wanted to know.


    When I get pulled over (usually so the officers can admire my hair, not because I am speeding), I choose to notify the officer if I am carrying. That is my choice, and I understand I am not required to do so. I have already turned off the car, rolled down the windows, turned on the interior lights, put my keys on the dashboard, and have my license, registration, and carry permit out. I don't blurt out "I have a gun", I just hand the permit to the officer along with my license and registration. I have always been asked where the gun is (right hip), and then asked to just keep my hands on the wheel. After a short wait, the officer has come back with my documents and has sent me on my way after thanking me for my courtesy. I then go on my merry way.

    My only other encounter while carrying was the week I got my permit. I was young and dumb. I had one of those sweet 5.11 tactical vests that nobody would ever recognize. :rolleyes: I was at a gas station. The officer asked a couple of questions about my car, and then asked if I was carrying. I said yes, and he asked if I had a permit. I again said yes. He did not ask to see it. That was it. If you are carrying legally, I do not think you will have a problem. This is just my experience. I tend to like police officers. YMMV
     

    rob

    DINO Extraordinaire
    Oct 11, 2010
    3,099
    Augusta, GA
    Op -

    The answer to your question is quite simple.

    C: None of the above

    MOVE TO THE FREE WORLD!!!

    Rob.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Miranda doesn't apply to answering routine questions of an officer.

    Miranda as is set fourth in case law has a basic two prong test. The first being custody...were you in custody/detained/free to go/or something that the courts will recognize as custody AND was there an interrogation. These are the basic and simple "terms" for folks to understand. There is obviously much more to it then this and you can do your own research on it.

    Deciding not to answer questions outside of a Miranda case is just you not answering questions under your 5th amendment right.

    I think blanket statements are stupid. There are plenty of times where talking to the police have helped out the truly innocent. There are plenty of detentions that do not turn into arrests because the innocent folk told the police what they were doing and there story was corroborated. The counter to that is if you clam up and say nothing once "probable (see the root word) cause" is met you are sure to be arrested and carried away pending further investigation.

    Do as you please. But blanket statements of how to do with every encounter is at best silly and can cause you distress down the road. Taking advice from keyboard lawyers and key board judges doesn't always play out in real life.
     

    sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    Sage advice: Don't ever think that you can talk your way out of getting arrested, much less talk your way out of a conviction. Quite likely, the reverse will be true. "Officer, before I respond to your questions, I would like an opportunity to consult with legal counsel." It should be your Mantra.

    Yep. The only evidence the state is going to have regarding what one is doing at the time will most likely come from one's own mouth. So, the less a person speaks, the better under the above scenario.

    As already mentioned though, best thing to do is not to break the law. If you are going to the part time job, just put the unloaded gun and ammo in the trunk and avoid the hassle.

    Agreed...

    So if you feel a need to carry & do not have the required unrestricted carry permit,
    plan to spend a LOT on Lawyers & miss a lot of time from work &
    you may ultimately end up forfeiting your right to own any guns at all...

    This is however not a crime for drug dealers, it's simply an occupational hazard...

     

    kgain673

    I'm sorry for the typos!!
    Dec 18, 2007
    1,820
    Miranda doesn't apply to answering routine questions of an officer.

    Miranda as is set fourth in case law has a basic two prong test. The first being custody...were you in custody/detained/free to go/or something that the courts will recognize as custody AND was there an interrogation. These are the basic and simple "terms" for folks to understand. There is obviously much more to it then this and you can do your own research on it.

    Deciding not to answer questions outside of a Miranda case is just you not answering questions under your 5th amendment right.

    I think blanket statements are stupid. There are plenty of times where talking to the police have helped out the truly innocent. There are plenty of detentions that do not turn into arrests because the innocent folk told the police what they were doing and there story was corroborated. The counter to that is if you clam up and say nothing once "probable (see the root word) cause" is met you are sure to be arrested and carried away pending further investigation.

    Do as you please. But blanket statements of how to do with every encounter is at best silly and can cause you distress down the road. Taking advice from keyboard lawyers and key board judges doesn't always play out in real life.

    I'm so glad your here posting logical responses to members, because I can't do it anymore. And I think RD is getting worn down. All the responses you've given are spot on.
     

    SS396

    Forum LEO whipping post
    Aug 19, 2013
    635
    Frederick County
    Thank you for posting!!

    This is a specific answer to the specific question I asked ("I guess I'm wondering when the investigation makes the turns to evidence that can be used against you?"). So what I say can be used against me before I'm read me my Miranda rights? Please don't take that as I am putting words in your mouth.

    As far as LEO knowing if I have a CCW, I read on that thread where the (IIRC) guy from Florida was pulled over around the Baltimore Tunnel and the LEO knew the person had a CCW when he ran the name or tag. True or not, I have no clue but sounds like it can be found out in a jiffy if the LEO wanted to know.

    The last several posts regarding Miranda rights are correct. Keep in mind that if someone under arrest makes "excited utterances", in other words you simply offer incriminating statements prior to being questioned by police, these utterances can be used against you. That applies whether you've been advised of your Miranda rights or not.

    The truth is, and this will freak many out, you can be arrested and never given your Miranda rights. Miranda only has to be given for "custodial interrogations". In other words, if I arrest someone for disorderly conduct and I don't need to talk with them regarding the crime they are in custody for (which is typically the case for minor violations of the law), I don't read them their rights. Many people do not believe this because they always see the dramatic "You have the right to remain........" on TV as soon as the cuffs go on. On the other hand, if you're in the interrogation room on a bank robbery charge and I'm asking you questions regarding your involvement in the robbery, then I should advise you of your rights. If I do not, then what you tell me could be inadmissable in court.

    In regard to being questioned on the side of the road during a traffic stop, well, that could be open to interpretation by the courts. If, during a motions hearing, a judge decides that the stop and the questioning amounted to a "custodial interrogation", then your statements could be thrown out and therefore not admissable since you weren't given your Miranda rights. If the officer is simply asking a question in an attempt to figure out what he's got (Routine questions as referred to above by NameTaken) and then you sing like a bird, then that might be used against you later. No two cases are the same. You can see how this gets complicated and the smallest variables can change things.

    As for what would constitute a "custodial interrogation" on the side of the road, before you are in handcuffs, that's another long conversation in itself.

    I'll also repeat what others have said. Don't take the advice of someone on the other side of the screen. Contact an attorney.
     

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