Liberty Tree - District 32

Haides · Apr 17, 2013

Late to the thread here, but I hope I can make it whenever ya'll set a date. My schedule is insanely busy, so I'm not counting on it though.

I've been wondering for quite a while what to do about DeGrange. I know he voted for cloture and then turned around and voted against the bill to make it look like he was on our side, but my question is this: Is the reason he voted against it at all because he is/was one of those "in danger of getting voted out" Senators? If not, why didn't he just vote for the bill the whole time? I can't tell if he needed to make it look like he supported us, but bowed to pressure from O'Malley & the Dems, or if he was just playing us the whole time...

If he needs us, then we could benefit by keeping him in as he'd be one we could pressure if need be.
Then again, if the pressure we put on this session wasn't enough to get to him, then maybe we need to go the "no mercy" route?

Minuteman · Apr 17, 2013

Consider running yourself or support a candidate.

Here's some inspiration:
Operation: Elect-Us
http://www.lp.org/operation-elect-us

RavensChick · Apr 17, 2013

Haides said:
Late to the thread here, but I hope I can make it whenever ya'll set a date. My schedule is insanely busy, so I'm not counting on it though.

I've been wondering for quite a while what to do about DeGrange. I know he voted for cloture and then turned around and voted against the bill to make it look like he was on our side, but my question is this: Is the reason he voted against it at all because he is/was one of those "in danger of getting voted out" Senators? If not, why didn't he just vote for the bill the whole time? I can't tell if he needed to make it look like he supported us, but bowed to pressure from O'Malley & the Dems, or if he was just playing us the whole time...

If he needs us, then we could benefit by keeping him in as he'd be one we could pressure if need be.
Then again, if the pressure we put on this session wasn't enough to get to him, then maybe we need to go the "no mercy" route?

PM me.

RavensChick · Apr 17, 2013

mr h said:
Should we call a meeting, then?

Say, oh, Sunday lunch at Mission BBQ?

PM me, Mr H.

Inigoes · Apr 17, 2013

Look to see how your local rep voted on the gas tax, and pummel them with their vote, if they voted for it.

Minuteman · Apr 17, 2013

Inigoes said:
Look to see how your local rep voted on the gas tax, and pummel them with their vote, if they voted for it.

Yes! What Inigoes said.

The good news is you live in AACO, and most of 'our' reps voted against the gun bill:

The only real stand outs were Mike Busch, and Mary Ann Love. These two should be our primary focus for everyone living in AACO.

DISTRICT 30 (Anne Arundel County)
Sen. John Astle (District 30 Democrat) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: YES, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Mike Busch (District 30 Democrat) - GAS TAX: YES, POT: YES, DMV ID: YES, GUN LAWS: YES

Del. Ron George (District 30 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Herb McMillan (District 30 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO

DISTRICT 31 (Anne Arundel County)
Sen. Bryan Simonaire (District 31 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Don Dwyer (District 31 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Nic Kipke (District 31 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Steve Schuh (District 31 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO

DISTRICT 32 (Anne Arundel County)
Sen. Ed DeGrange (District 32 Democrat) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Pamela Beidle (District 32 Democrat) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NOT VOTING, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Mary Ann Love (District 32 Democrat) - GAS TAX: YES, POT: YES, DMV ID: YES, GUN LAWS:YES

Del. Theodore Sophocleus (District 32 Democrat) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO

DISTRICT 33 (Anne Arundel County)
Sen. Ed Reilly (District 33 Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Tony McConkey (District 33A Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Kathy Vitale (District 33A Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO
Del. Robert Costa (District 33B Republican) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: YES, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO

Mr H · Apr 17, 2013

Something that will need to be considered in any discussions, is that we will still have the 2014 GA session to consider.

The reps' actions during that session will be used as the yardstick for whether we actively work to replace them.

Calling them out for their votes is only part of the equation, IMO... Letting the scale of their betrayal be known across the district, and enabling more citizens to get involved is going to be our greatest tool.

RoccoRP87 · Apr 17, 2013

Let's remember too some of the Alinsky tactics our rivals use.

Getting the word out that these people voted for so and so tax or against 2A rights is well and good for people who already agree with us but we have to dig deeper.

"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

dhickey · Apr 18, 2013

I know a lot of people think DeGrange should be tossed for his cloture vote. When you look at the rest of his voting record I think it is going to be difficult to communicate that rationale to the masses. Love, on the other hand, is a much more vulnerable one since her votes across the board were so out of family with the rest of the District 32 delegation.

Just because we may want to get some of these people out for strictly 2A reasons, I don't know that the average person is going to be as much of a single issue voter as that. That doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, use their record against them for a variety of transgressions.

There surely needs to be a strong 2A component to the reason why they got tossed to send a message loud and clear that the SB281 opposition has real teeth. At the same time, no reason not to round up additional opposition from people indifferent to 2A but who may be really annoyed by the gas tax, illegals, etc.

DeGrange might be wishy-washy due to his cloture vote, and I'm not convinced of Beidle's true support either (the letter I got said she opposed the bill because she didn't like the ban list.... What about the licensing? Was that considered ok???). But Love is clearly hostile to 2A across the board.

Mr H · Apr 18, 2013

Beidle is still 'workable', IMO... and, based on my communication with her, I think she's come to realize that she's been paying attention to the wrong people.

Sophocleus needs a wake-up call, but is leaning toward needing to go.

Love HAS to go.

DeGrange needs a complete reassessment, but I feel he's outlasted his usefulness.

All that said..........

We still have a 2014 session to deal with, AND determine who will replace them.

pigfrmr · Apr 18, 2013

Haides said:
I've been wondering for quite a while what to do about DeGrange. I know he voted for cloture and then turned around and voted against the bill to make it look like he was on our side, but my question is this: Is the reason he voted against it at all because he is/was one of those "in danger of getting voted out" Senators? If not, why didn't he just vote for the bill the whole time? I can't tell if he needed to make it look like he supported us, but bowed to pressure from O'Malley & the Dems, or if he was just playing us the whole time...

If he needs us, then we could benefit by keeping him in as he'd be one we could pressure if need be.
Then again, if the pressure we put on this session wasn't enough to get to him, then maybe we need to go the "no mercy" route?

I worked for him at his daddy's lumber yard in the 70's........was definitely a what's in it for me type back then!

Haides · Apr 18, 2013

mr h said:
Sophocleus needs a wake-up call, but is leaning toward needing to go.

I thought we was with us on this?
Are you talking about his record on other issues?

DeGrange needs a complete reassessment, but I feel he's outlasted his usefulness.

Not gonna lie, when you say it like that, it makes us sound like a bad guy in a movie that's about to "retire" one of his henchmen for not getting the job done. Haha

pigfrmr said:
I worked for him at his daddy's lumber yard in the 70's........was definitely a what's in it for me type back then!

Well if that's the case, I'm sure he'd appreciate a large number of 2A supporting DINO's keeping him safe in the primaries in exchange for his support on 2A issues... I'm just concerned about the risks of "playing politics" vs trying to get someone in who's the real deal. Then again, we aren't going to be able to get Smigiel's and Dwyer's in every district...

Mr H · Apr 18, 2013

Ted is with us (at least on the surface), but he needs to prove to me that he can be counted on to be consistent, and not cave on other issues.

I still need to look at his session record, but IIRC he didn't do the residents many favors.

RavensChick · Apr 18, 2013

mr h said:
Beidle is still 'workable', IMO... and, based on my communication with her, I think she's come to realize that she's been paying attention to the wrong people.

Sophocleus needs a wake-up call, but is leaning toward needing to go.

Love HAS to go.

DeGrange needs a complete reassessment, but I feel he's outlasted his usefulness.

All that said..........

We still have a 2014 session to deal with, AND determine who will replace them.

I'm not sure why you state that about Sophocleus. To me, he voted "correctly" on everything and voted for all the pro-2A amendments. I've had some personal communications with him and he's said or done nothing that would go against the 2A. NTM, he voted AGAINST all the taxes and drivers licenses for illegals.

IMHO, he's the least of our worries.

My top 2 are:

1) Love
2) DeGrange

And Love needs to be our single biggest target (pun intended) in 2014. With her votes on the Rain Tax and Gas Tax, she has given us plenty of ammo (again, pun intended) to take her down.

If we can sucessfully do that, maybe DeGrange might be a little more "thoughtful" in his 2A voting in the future.

So many targets, so little time.

RavensChick · Apr 18, 2013

RoccoRP87 said:
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

Abso-phuckin-lutely! :deal:

I like the way you think, Rocco.

Mr H · Apr 18, 2013

RavensChick said:
I'm not sure why you state that about Sophocleus. To me, he voted "correctly" on everything and voted for all the pro-2A amendments. I've had some personal communications with him and he's said or done nothing that would go against the 2A. NTM, he voted AGAINST all the taxes and drivers licenses for illegals.

IMHO, he's the least of our worries.

My top 2 are:

1) Love
2) DeGrange

And Love needs to be our single biggest target (pun intended) in 2014. With her votes on the Rain Tax and Gas Tax, she has given us plenty of ammo (again, pun intended) to take her down.

If we can sucessfully do that, maybe DeGrange might be a little more "thoughtful" in his 2A voting in the future.

So many targets, so little time.

Fair enough... Like I said, I hadn't had a chance to pore over TS's record this session... I do have memories of him being iffy in the past, and I guess that colored me a little. I hope he's come around.

MadCat0911 · Apr 18, 2013

RavensChick said:
I'm not sure why you state that about Sophocleus. To me, he voted "correctly" on everything and voted for all the pro-2A amendments. I've had some personal communications with him and he's said or done nothing that would go against the 2A. NTM, he voted AGAINST all the taxes and drivers licenses for illegals.

IMHO, he's the least of our worries.

My top 2 are:

1) Love
2) DeGrange

And Love needs to be our single biggest target (pun intended) in 2014. With her votes on the Rain Tax and Gas Tax, she has given us plenty of ammo (again, pun intended) to take her down.

If we can sucessfully do that, maybe DeGrange might be a little more "thoughtful" in his 2A voting in the future.

So many targets, so little time.

Exactly. And even putting pressure on DeGrange might stop him from doing this shit to us again, though I still think we need him out if we can manage it.

Mr H · Apr 19, 2013

Any updates on a meet???

Wife is in a Utah permit course Sunday, so other than a run to BJ's at some point, I'm open. Evenings next week SHOULD be good, but who really knows...

Minuteman · Apr 20, 2013

I must have missed it, tell me again why DeGrange should be a priority for us?

DISTRICT 32 (Anne Arundel County)
Sen. Ed DeGrange (District 32 Democrat) - GAS TAX: NO, POT: NO, DMV ID: NO, GUN LAWS: NO

Mr H · Apr 20, 2013

Two schools of thought, I suppose...

One, we need to cement his support for the future through pressure and 'education'. His experience and connections are valuable, but are useless unless he gets consistent.

Two, he's been unreliable on some issues over the years, has gotten too comfortable, and needs to go. He plays the "but I voted X-way in the end" game. The question then becomes one of a viable replacement.

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