AR Forward Assist

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

lx1x said:
there are others... was bored just googled when fa design started.. found that article.

i have both... never had issue (blown out primer..,knock on wood.. havent exp it.)

only one time on my lr308.. a friend rode the charging handle to load the round. only time it didnt seat the round correctly. mortared it.. slam the next round. no issues after.

Like I said, my statements about the necessity of the F.A. has nothing to do with nudging the Carrier into battery due to babying the gun or a fouled weapon. Its about ammo malfunctions. The Primer issues is the most common one. Its especially common with civilian AR's with military ammo (Short Throats). I diagnose these issues all of the time and I know how to decrease the odds of it happening but the F.A. should always be there.

When you add a sound suppressor or KKX Booster the chances of popped primers increase too.

Bad headspace can cause it as well, but in that case its best to shelf the weapon till it can be gauged.

Take a shooting class with an AR with no FA and get a malfunction like Im describing and your money will be wasted unless you bring a backup or the instructor loans you a carbine.

KIBarrister · Oct 6, 2014

Last AR I broke in had a jam that the FA was helpful with - only happened once, never before on any other rifle, never since on that or any other rifle. But, if the context of the experience had been different, and I didn't have it, I would have really wanted it…. Apart from saving a buck or two (or perhaps availability during the Troubles from a year ago), why wouldn't you opt for FA on your hardware?

clandestine · Oct 6, 2014

Here is the last time we discussed it.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=122405&highlight=forward+assist

alucard0822 · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
Who are you trying to debate?

I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through the AR platform as a civilian gunsmith. The U.S. Military uses only a few types of ammunition. In the civilian world there are thousands of ammunition combinations, different chambers, and weapon manufacturers to throw in the mix.

If ammo malfunctions in the way I have described repeatedly above, the FA is a necessity. If you haven't experienced it, its because of the sampling of ammo you are using in the particular systems your firing the ammunition from.

Its there for a reason, because its needed when ammo or conditions cause the weapon to crap the bed.

It's use is still part of an immediate action drill as taught by most instructors, most use the SPORTS acronym. Like the DI system, the FA is part of the design, messing with it is a good way to loose a valuable, although seldom needed tool, and invite problems for no real benefit.

lx1x · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
Like I said, my statements about the necessity of the F.A. has nothing to do with nudging the Carrier into battery due to babying the gun or a fouled weapon. Its about ammo malfunctions. The Primer issues is the most common one. Its especially common with civilian AR's with military ammo (Short Throats). I diagnose these issues all of the time and I know how to decrease the odds of it happening but the F.A. should always be there.

When you add a sound suppressor or KKX Booster the chances of popped primers increase too.

Bad headspace can cause it as well, but in that case its best to shelf the weapon till it can be gauged.

Take a shooting class with an AR with no FA and get a malfunction like Im describing and your money will be wasted unless you bring a backup or the instructor loans you a carbine.

Jarhead FLSTI · Oct 6, 2014

I've been thankful for a forward assist 3 different times. The first time was a bad round when I was in the Marines. If it weren't for sport-fire/sports I would have been lost. The second time was a blown primer from one of my own reloads. The third time was inattention after a cleaning when I forgot to put the buffer and buffer spring back in and tried to function check. The FA made moving the bolt forward far enough to fix my f-u a lot easier.

Are FAs necessary? Probably not... Are they helpful? My experience says yes.

I had one slick sided upper on a cheap DPMS that got swapped for a blem'd BCM $49 upper.

FlatsFlite · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
Who are you trying to debate?

I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through the AR platform as a civilian gunsmith. The U.S. Military uses only a few types of ammunition. In the civilian world there are thousands of ammunition combinations, different chambers, and weapon manufacturers to throw in the mix.

If ammo malfunctions in the way I have described repeatedly above, the FA is a necessity. If you haven't experienced it, its because of the sampling of ammo you are using in the particular systems your firing the ammunition from.

Its there for a reason, because its needed when ammo or conditions cause the weapon to crap the bed.

I'm not debating anyone. I've never had an issue that required the use of a forward assist, but obviously it's really important to you. I feel the same way about women with boobs. I really don't have a practical (productive) application for them (boobs), but they are nice to have around and are a great source of entertainment. I recommend them highly.

lx1x · Oct 6, 2014

FlatsFlite said:
I'm not debating anyone. I've never had an issue that required the use of a forward assist, but obviously it's really important to you. I feel the same way about women with boobs. I really don't have a practical application for them (boobs), but they are nice to have around and are a great source of entertainment. I recommend them highly.

really? man..o.. man..

i can list a few applications.. but ill be banned if i do.

lol

BradMacc82 · Oct 6, 2014

It's been more of a benefit than a hindrance to me on a few occasions.

Just like keeping a med-kit or a spare tire or tool kit in your vehicle - majority of times you likely won't need those things, but when they are finally needed you're glad to have them around.

BradMacc82 · Oct 6, 2014

lx1x said:
really? man..o.. man..

i can list a few applications.. but ill be banned if i do.

lol

One great use, if they're appropriately sized - pillows.

lx1x · Oct 6, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
One great use, if they're appropriately sized - pillows.

b

i

n

g

o

!
!
!

lol

outrider58 · Oct 6, 2014

The original Air force CARs didn't have fa s back in the Vietnam era. I own one. Never had any problems out of it as long as I used good mags.

Kman · Oct 6, 2014

Never owned an AR without a forward assist, but never had to use it on any of them either.

Can it really save that much money not to have one?

lee2 · Oct 6, 2014

clandestine said:
You are kidding right? You are saying you should stop after each shot using a semi automatic rifle and examine the battery of the bolt?

The forward assist isn't just there for a fouled gun, its there to get the bolt to seat so you can remove a popped primer or damaged casing that made it into the chamber.

Damage can occur to the casings when feeding or clearing a malfunction. Popped primers will lock up an AR and other rifles too. Whether the ammo is bad, the throat is short causing a pressure spike, or murphy decides to show up. AKs and SKSs lock up hard when a primer makes its way into the action too.

On weapons with a fixed bolt handle you can smack it it wood, a boot or a solid object to seat or take the weapon out of battery. The AR requires the FA to force the bolt closed to remove the upper to clear any nasty obstruction.

what i'm saying if you have to use the forward assist, its gummed up, maybe a bad round, or something stuck in the chamber. i would rather examine the rifle first then have a kb.

Sirex · Oct 6, 2014

Sorry to be stupid here, I am not an AR owner, do piston AR rifles have the forward assist as well, or is it just DI guns? I know a lot of look alikes have fake FA tabs, so figured I'd ask.

outrider58 · Oct 6, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
One great use, if they're appropriately sized - pillows.

Love pillows :party29:

outrider58 · Oct 6, 2014

Sirex said:
Sorry to be stupid here, I am not an AR owner, do piston AR rifles have the forward assist as well, or is it just DI guns? I know a lot of look alikes have fake FA tabs, so figured I'd ask.

Not a stupid question. Some do some don't. I would not take an AR pistol into a firefight, It's a range toy and in being such, I would be running clean stuff through it. If there's a problem, I'd put it away, go home and fix it. But, I don't have one, don't really see a need for one other than a fun range toy. FA? probably depends on the upper you buy....

outrider58 · Oct 6, 2014

ericoak said:
Can't you always just use your thumb to press on the cutout on the bolt if needed?

Only if you're ok with putting your thumb into a hot skillet!

BradMacc82 · Oct 6, 2014

Sirex said:
Sorry to be stupid here, I am not an AR owner, do piston AR rifles have the forward assist as well, or is it just DI guns? I know a lot of look alikes have fake FA tabs, so figured I'd ask.

Depends on whose design it is.

On my old Stag 8L, it did have the functional FA.

Vile Shadow · Oct 6, 2014

I don't have a FA on my SP1, so it's the range toy.

Long story short, it's better to have the FA and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

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