Integral shotgun silencer

novus collectus · Oct 22, 2009

In another thread someone mentioned a short barreled shotgun for home defense, but forgot to mention the blast would still cause hearing damage, so then I wondered about a silenced short barreled shotgun.....and THEN I wondered about a regular shorter barreled shotgun with an NFA device attached in such a manner that only one tax stamp was needed.
How about a barrel for a Remmington 870 that is short and has a shotgun silencer attached permanently but the over all length of the barrel is 18 inches so anyone can buy just the barrel/silencer with the tax stamp and throw it on any 870 shotgun?
That way one could have a tactical shotgun with an 18 inch silenced barrel for home defense for just an extra $200 tax stamp and the cost of the barrel/silencer.

So here is the other question, how expensive and hard would it be to make a silencer integral with a shotgun barrel that canot be removed from the barrel?

Think about home defense without making you deaf in closed quarters, but still yet have enough power to take out a black bear if needed.

Ethan83 · Oct 22, 2009

boatbiologist · Oct 22, 2009

Here is the coolest shotgun I have ever seen. Made by Redjacket and sold by mississippi arms.

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/SuppressedRedJacketS-12.AVI

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/SuppressedRedJacketS12vsAR.AVI

$2500 for an integrally suppressed Saiga-12 or $900 for a screw on 12 gauge suppressor for your sbs (it is 16" long).

I would love to show up with one of these at trap night. I am sort of kind of thinking about getting one... don't know about home defense practicality but the toy wow factor is thru the roof.

SCARCQB · Oct 22, 2009

5-6 decibel reduction on a 12 gauge shotgun isnt really worth the trouble. I have friends in other countries that have experimented with a saboted shotgun round, rifled slugs, cupped shots with some success in suppression. but still not hearing safe.

The reflex shot gun suppressor is simple enough to reverse engineer. I have attached a picture of the internals.

novus collectus · Oct 23, 2009

boatbiologist said:
Here is the coolest shotgun I have ever seen. Made by Redjacket and sold by mississippi arms.

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/SuppressedRedJacketS-12.AVI

http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/SuppressedRedJacketS12vsAR.AVI

$2500 for an integrally suppressed Saiga-12 or $900 for a screw on 12 gauge suppressor for your sbs (it is 16" long).

I would love to show up with one of these at trap night. I am sort of kind of thinking about getting one... don't know about home defense practicality but the toy wow factor is thru the roof.

NOw THAT is what I'm talking about. :party29:

HOwever, I wonder what one with an integral silencered 18" barrel which is a bullpup or has a folding stock and can be fired folded would be like for home defense.

h2u · Oct 23, 2009

SCARCQB said:
5-6 decibel reduction on a 12 gauge shotgun isnt really worth the trouble. I have friends in other countries that have experimented with a saboted shotgun round, rifled slugs, cupped shots with some success in suppression. but still not hearing safe.

The reflex shot gun suppressor is simple enough to reverse engineer. I have attached a picture of the internals.

Tony Rumore made a demo pretty much like the above pictured suppressor. He says, "The can has a barrel extension inside of it, that has been extensively ported. The prototype is steel since I had the tubing in stock. Production will be aluminum if it works out". Oh, it's also threaded for chokes :thumbsup:

This was in early 2007. He's been a little too busy converting Saiga's to go any further than testing at the moment. Hopefully someday.........

IlikeNFA · Oct 23, 2009

Tony Rumore made a demo pretty much like the above pictured suppressor. He says, "The can has a barrel extension inside of it, that has been extensively ported. The prototype is steel since I had the tubing in stock. Production will be aluminum if it works out". Oh, it's also threaded for chokes
This was in early 2007. He's been a little too busy converting Saiga's to go any further than testing at the moment. Hopefully someday.........

I am virtually positive hes not pursuing that any longer. Red Jacket is the only company offering a suppressed setup.

h2u · Oct 23, 2009

"Pursuing" may be the wrong word. Tony is geared up to convert S-12's and that is where he makes his living. Having said that, Tony is a tinkerer by nature and will always have side projects. He also has to worry that the current administration will pursue a ban which will include the S-12. He needs to stay ahead of the curve and have other products ready to fill the void should there be a ban. The suppressor is still alive and well-just on the back burner as Tony "makes hay while the sun shines" with the conversions.
Red Jacket makes good stuff and I wish them well with their suppressor. We need all of the creativity and talent possible in this industry :thumbsup:

I will wait patiently until/if Tony offers up a version for the retail market.

SCARCQB · Oct 23, 2009

There are many technical issues to overcome while trying to supress a shotgun.how does one overcome the issue 0f multiple projectiles breaking the sound barrier? Subsonic shots? That's takes away the effectiveness of the shotgun. Similar to the subsonic 5.7x28 round. Velocity makes the difference.
launching multiple supersonic projectiles from a single barrel. poor gas seal. a huge bore, makes suppressing a shotgun almost imposible. Sound reduction of about 6 decibels, $200 tax stamp, another $200 for the SBS stamp , the added weight. It's not worth it.

Inigoes · Oct 23, 2009

No Tax stamp required

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/12/18/quiet-shotgun/

boatbiologist · Oct 23, 2009

SCARCQB said:
There are many technical issues to overcome while trying to supress a shotgun.how does one overcome the issue 0f multiple projectiles breaking the sound barrier? Subsonic shots? That's takes away the effectiveness of the shotgun. Similar to the subsonic 5.7x28 round. Velocity makes the difference.
launching multiple supersonic projectiles from a single barrel. poor gas seal. a huge bore, makes suppressing a shotgun almost imposible. Sound reduction of about 6 decibels, $200 tax stamp, another $200 for the SBS stamp , the added weight. It's not worth it.

The Redjacket is a 1 stamp gun-- (integral greater than 18 inche barrel so no SBS stamp or faxing ATF my travel plans). Worth it? Depends on who you ask. I am pretty sure I can't shoot it in my back yard without alerting the neighbors, but I can't shoot my 5.56 back there and be 100% stealth either. That is the only reason I see why I don't have one waiting on ATF paperwork right now. The way I feel about NFA-- If I can legaly own it, afford it and it makes me happy, I get it. There is really nothing practical about NFA stuff to me other than being polite; which is a total aside from the real reason, they are fun. That thing looks FUN!

boatbiologist · Oct 23, 2009

Inigoes said:
No Tax stamp required

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/12/18/quiet-shotgun/

that looks a bit difficult to maneuver with. could you imagine trying to weild that thing in your bedroom?

Inigoes · Oct 23, 2009

boatbiologist said:
that looks a bit difficult to maneuver with. could you imagine trying to weild that thing in your bedroom?

I do not think the inventor had CQB in mind.

midcountyg · Oct 23, 2009

novus collectus said:
In another thread someone mentioned a short barreled shotgun for home defense, but forgot to mention the blast would still cause hearing damage, so then I wondered about a silenced short barreled shotgun.....and THEN I wondered about a regular shorter barreled shotgun with an NFA device attached in such a manner that only one tax stamp was needed.
How about a barrel for a Remmington 870 that is short and has a shotgun silencer attached permanently but the over all length of the barrel is 18 inches so anyone can buy just the barrel/silencer with the tax stamp and throw it on any 870 shotgun?
That way one could have a tactical shotgun with an 18 inch silenced barrel for home defense for just an extra $200 tax stamp and the cost of the barrel/silencer.

So here is the other question, how expensive and hard would it be to make a silencer integral with a shotgun barrel that canot be removed from the barrel?

Think about home defense without making you deaf in closed quarters, but still yet have enough power to take out a black bear if needed.

I have actually been thinking of trying to build a shotgun suppressor. There are a number of things to work out, but maybe some day. I was going to start with a Mossberg 500 in 410, then maybe something bigger. I started really thinking about it when I began toying with the Saigas. Keep an eye on my threads, and maybe something will come together.

dasaroth · Oct 23, 2009

Silencer Research 410 pump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpTj95V8-c4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAIgnBrfJxc&feature=related

h2u · Oct 23, 2009

midcountygunshop said:
I have actually been thinking of trying to build a shotgun suppressor. There are a number of things to work out, but maybe some day. I was going to start with a Mossberg 500 in 410, then maybe something bigger. I started really thinking about it when I began toying with the Saigas. Keep an eye on my threads, and maybe something will come together.

I'll bring an SBS by the shop if you don't want to cut up any of yours at the moment. Let me know what barrel length you're looking for.

midcountyg · Oct 23, 2009

dasaroth said:
Silencer Research 410 pump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpTj95V8-c4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAIgnBrfJxc&feature=related

I saw those, and that's what gave me the idea to try it on a 410, which I happen to have on the shelf :innocent0

.

midcountyg · Oct 23, 2009

h2u said:
I'll bring an SBS by the shop if you don't want to cut up any of yours at the moment. Let me know what barrel length you're looking for.

You're always welcome to bring toys for me to check out

, but I have a 12" Saiga that may end up the test subject

By the way, your RPK is ready for a test fire :party29:

h2u · Oct 23, 2009

midcountygunshop said:
You're always welcome to bring toys for me to check out , but I have a 12" Saiga that may end up the test subject By the way, your RPK is ready for a test fire

Don't wait for me. Tear it up!!

novus collectus · Oct 24, 2009

SCARCQB said:
There are many technical issues to overcome while trying to supress a shotgun.how does one overcome the issue 0f multiple projectiles breaking the sound barrier? Subsonic shots? That's takes away the effectiveness of the shotgun. Similar to the subsonic 5.7x28 round. Velocity makes the difference.
launching multiple supersonic projectiles from a single barrel. poor gas seal. a huge bore, makes suppressing a shotgun almost imposible. Sound reduction of about 6 decibels, $200 tax stamp, another $200 for the SBS stamp , the added weight. It's not worth it.

First, one does not need subsonic shot if they are just trying to reduce the sound level to the point where it doesn't make you permanently deaf because I assume the supersonic crack would not be loud enough to cause permanent damage in closed quarters.
Second, yes, subsonic loads are fine for home defense. Imagine shooting someone with the power of nine .38 S&W bullets out of a revolver. Just one might do the job, but nine at once will have a wallop. One idea mentioned in the other thread about a SBS for home defense was overpenetration problems, but with round balls moving at subsonic speed overpenetration is not as much of an issue.

As for the added weight and such, well I assume a barrel of about 10" or less with a eight inch or more suppressor permanently attached wouldn't be much heavier than an 18" double barreled shotgun.

As to teh gas seal, well I assume if one is using a round with a shot cup much of the seal is taken care of, but if not then I assume the wadding will provide some.

Integral shotgun silencer

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