Load development

km04 · Feb 16, 2017

Going to try and work up some better loads 3 rifles. I want to do this for my AR, my .308, and my 30-06. I am looking for bullet sample packs where there may be 2 or 3 different bullet weights in a pack. Anybody got any ideas as to where to get them? My internet search has been all over the place with price so I am turning here for a little advise.

Thanks guys and gals.

dist1646 · Feb 16, 2017

I think Sinclair sells sample packs. Some manufacturers will send you small samples if you contact them.

Seagrave1963 · Feb 16, 2017

Try Midsouth Shooters Supply. I just got 4 "sample" packs to try since I am just getting into reloading and did not want to buy too much of something.

Here is a link to one of their .308 sample packs: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....-tail-hollow-point-shot-group-sample-20-count

Here is a link to one of their .223/.224 sample packs: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....grain-premium-shot-group-sample-pack-30-count

Speed3 · Feb 16, 2017

Post up what your looking for, I might be able to give a few if your close to frederick

alucard0822 · Feb 16, 2017

Midsouth is the way to go if there isn't one particular bullet you want to load around

Pinecone · Feb 17, 2017

Personally, I would pick a bullet based on use, and then work up the load for that bullet. There are too many variables if you try to work up a load with a number of different bullets.

As for load work up method, I use the OCW method.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

dist1646 said:
I think Sinclair sells sample packs. Some manufacturers will send you small samples if you contact them.

Sinclairs had a very limited selection.

Seagrave1963 said:
Try Midsouth Shooters Supply. I just got 4 "sample" packs to try since I am just getting into reloading and did not want to buy too much of something.

Here is a link to one of their .308 sample packs: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....-tail-hollow-point-shot-group-sample-20-count

Here is a link to one of their .223/.224 sample packs: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....grain-premium-shot-group-sample-pack-30-count

Midsouth looks a little better, thanks.

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

Speed3 said:
Post up what your looking for, I might be able to give a few if your close to frederick

Awesome offer, but I am in Harford county, not very close to you.

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

alucard0822 said:
Midsouth is the way to go if there isn't one particular bullet you want to load around

No particular bullet, just trying to find what shoots best from each rifle.

Pinecone said:
Personally, I would pick a bullet based on use, and then work up the load for that bullet. There are too many variables if you try to work up a load with a number of different bullets.

As for load work up method, I use the OCW method.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

It seems I may have worded this post poorly. I am trying to find what weight bullet shoots most accurately from my rifles. So far I have been buying bullets, usually in 100 or 250 round boxes/lots, and this has been ok so far, but I want to get the accuracy of my rounds better. I want to find sample packs with different weights for a couple reasons. If I buy 100 or 250 bullets and they shoot crappy out of my rifle then I am stuck with rounds that are not accurate, sure I could just shoot them up to use them but I'd rather not. Second, I would be stuck with bullets already bought but not being used. Neither are huge problems, I could easily give them away to someone that could use them, but then I am back where I started, buying bullets that may or may not improve my accuracy.

Blacksmith101 · Feb 17, 2017

Have you checked your twist rate and tried the Greenhill formula and variations to see what weight range (actually bullet length) you should be in?

http://stevespages.com/page8e.htm

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
Have you checked your twist rate and tried the Greenhill formula and variations to see what weight range (actually bullet length) you should be in?

http://stevespages.com/page8e.htm

I have, but I am trying to find the particular weight/type of bullet shoots best. I do appreciate the link, and it can help, but ultimately I need time behind the rifle the get the best accuracy. The information provided is a good starting point but it's only one part of my plan to becoming a better shooter.

outrider58 · Feb 17, 2017

By the time I run through my test ladders, trying bullets and different powders, I'm a good ways through a box of 100 bullets. FWIW

Biggfoot44 · Feb 17, 2017

In hopes of narrowing things down :

Which weights are you currently using ? Anything already determined to suck ?

At least for the .30's , hunting capable or pure match bullets ? Any burning desire to go outside of the typical 150-180gr range on purpose ? While smaller is always better, what sort of accuracy level are you realistically seeking ? .5moa or 1-1.25moa ?

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

outrider58 said:
By the time I run through my test ladders, trying bullets and different powders, I'm a good ways through a box of 100 bullets. FWIW

You know what, I never looked at it this way. I guess it's all in the perspective. Thanks.

km04 · Feb 17, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
In hopes of narrowing things down :

Which weights are you currently using ? Anything already determined to suck ?

At least for the .30's , hunting capable or pure match bullets ? Any burning desire to go outside of the typical 150-180gr range on purpose ? While smaller is always better, what sort of accuracy level are you realistically seeking ? .5moa or 1-1.25moa ?

for .224 I have tried 52 gr., 53 gr., 55 gr., and 62 gr. Nothing that was horrible but some were a little better than others. I can attribute some of the less than stellar days to either weather or shooter, but most likely shooter.

For .30 150 gr., 168 gr., 177 gr, and 180 gr. Again, I can attribute some of the less than stellar days to either weather or shooter, but most likely shooter.

No burning desire for anything other than becoming the best shooter I can be. I have read a ton and seen all the internet "masters" give their "hard and fast rules for what works" every time for every one. I know this is not the case and that there are many variables that goes into getting accurate.

Realistically I would like to get all of the rifles at 1 moa, but I am also realistic in my expectations and do think that the AR my not get there, and I am ok with that. It's not a $3000 precision gun, it's a budget gun that I built from a NFA poly lower and a S&W Sporter upper, but I want to be as good as possible with it.

For the 30-06 I would like to get it at 1 moa rifle, but to get it there I need to put in the work and do my part.

For the .308 I know it can be a sub moa rifle, but again, to get it there I need to put in the work and do my part.

I'm not afraid of doing the work or being shown/told that I am working against myself with how I am doing things. I just want to get better and be the best shooter I can be.

I really appreciate everyone's replies so far and hope it shows in my responses. Thanks guys.

Doco Overboard · Feb 17, 2017

km04 said:
No particular bullet, just trying to find what shoots best from each rifle.

It seems I may have worded this post poorly. I am trying to find what weight bullet shoots most accurately from my rifles. So far I have been buying bullets, usually in 100 or 250 round boxes/lots, and this has been ok so far, but I want to get the accuracy of my rounds better. I want to find sample packs with different weights for a couple reasons. If I buy 100 or 250 bullets and they shoot crappy out of my rifle then I am stuck with rounds that are not accurate, sure I could just shoot them up to use them but I'd rather not. Second, I would be stuck with bullets already bought but not being used. Neither are huge problems, I could easily give them away to someone that could use them, but then I am back where I started, buying bullets that may or may not improve my accuracy.

The most accurate load in the world will not shoot well out of a rifle that has more than one or two dimensional problems with it. It would be a tall order to remove all the variables out of one rifle vs. three rifles at the same time. If you have a load that works well in one or more you would at least have a basis to rule some of the aforementioned out. You have a better process in my opinion while having a bunch of left over bullets vs trying to build an accurate load out of a sample pack. There's not enough there to determine seating depth vs charge wt and of course other variables when developing a load chain and then continuing further testing to verify your results. Just a thought.

Speed3 · Feb 17, 2017

Doco Overboard said:
The most accurate load in the world will not shoot well out of a rifle that has more than one or two dimensional problems with it. It would be a tall order to remove all the variables out of one rifle vs. three rifles at the same time. If you have a load that works well in one or more you would at least have a basis to rule some of the aforementioned out. You have a better process in my opinion while having a bunch of left over bullets vs trying to build an accurate load out of a sample pack. There's not enough there to determine seating depth vs charge wt and of course other variables when developing a load chain and then continuing further testing to verify your results. Just a thought.

While I'm on the same thought as you with seating depths, charge weight, neck tension etc.

Still blows my mind how FGMM shoots well in every rifle I've personally seen and it's doing so for 20 years?

Blacksmith101 · Feb 17, 2017

km04 said:
I have, but I am trying to find the particular weight/type of bullet shoots best. I do appreciate the link, and it can help, but ultimately I need time behind the rifle the get the best accuracy. The information provided is a good starting point but it's only one part of my plan to becoming a better shooter.

To become the best with all your guns.

First establish just how good a shooter you are. Get access to one or several known accurate guns and compare your groups with groups from the same guns fired by an expert.

Second have your guns inspected and tuned for accuracy by a gunsmith who prepares those exact models for competition.

Third have your guns shot by an expert with commercial ammo to establish a baseline.

Forth you shoot your guns with the same ammo as the expert used to establish your personal baseline for comparison in your ammo testing.

Fifth starting with your best gun from the above tests buy a box of the same commercial brand of ammo in each bullet weight and fire groups to see which weight/style preforms best.

Sixth buy different brands of that weight and fire test groups to see how much is because of weight vs manufacturer. If there are large variations then repeat the weight selection tests with various manufacturers.

Seventh using the above baselines start load development ladders for the best weights determined by commercial ammo tests in order to eliminate the variables of powder type, charge weight, primer selection, seating depth, neck tension, bullet manufacturer, case prep, etc.

Using commercial ammo at 20 cartridges per box for your initial tests would allow you to fire three foulers, and a seven shot test group and have enough remaining to be able to repeat the test a second time if necessary.

Cuttyfunk · Feb 17, 2017

Just for reference. I had a Remington 700 308 Sporter that shot terrible groups. I finally decided to see what it could do. This rifle shot 2 moa consistently. I switched out the stock to a HS precision. Swapped the scope from 4x to 12x. Gun now shoots sub 1/2 moa with FGMM and regularly sub 1 moa with handloads. You can't make a 2 moa gun shoot 1 moa just with handloads. Rarely are the bullets to blame for poor performance.

StickShaker · Feb 18, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
To become the best with all your guns.

Very helpful info Blacksmith.

Load development

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