Perfect AR 9 Trigger

Pic of the trigger shape. It uses 4 screws to hold it in place, I added blue Loctite to the screw threads.

calicojack said:

Pic of the trigger shape. It uses 4 screws to hold it in place, I added blue Loctite to the screw threads.

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What magazine is that with what looks like a depressable button on the side?

MindTheGAP said:

What magazine is that with what looks like a depressable button on the side?

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Magpul Glock 17 mag modified to hold only 10 rounds.

John from MD said:

I use two stage triggers in my competition rifles but the straight blade single stage seems to have less movement to me.

Maybe one of the MDS scientific community can measure the two and see if there is any validity to my belief.

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measured a few Geissele triggers with calipers and wheeler pull gauge.

G2S-E 2.1# 1st stage, 3.5# break .060" takeup, .035" break/OT, .050" reset.
G2S 2.4# 1st stage, 4.4# break .065" takeup, .030" break/OT, .050" reset
GRF(light spring) 3# break, 082" break/OT, .050 reset
SDC 2.5# 1st stage, 4.5# break, .065" takeup, .035" break/OT, .050" reset

a couple other competition triggers

ACT AR gold .5# 1st stage 2.6# break .035 takeup, .030" break/OT .040" reset

Timney CE 1.5# break .045" break/OT, .035" reset.

Among my 2 stage Geissele triggers, the curved G2S and G2S-E have near identical travel to the straight SDC, only the single stage GRF has a shorter total pull length, and not by much. So at least with what I have, doesn't appear to be any measured difference even if they do feel a little different. I like the 2 stage for precision work being you "feel" the difference between stages( approx 1.5-2#), and the small .030" movement. When shooting fast though, you primarily feel the lighter 1st stage and movement, then just a "bump" as it hits the 2nd stage and fires. I do like the GRF for pure fast shooting, it has a little more reset force, and better feel, especially if you ride the reset for fast strings. I use one of the other for most things, PCCs get the GRF, rifle cals get the G2S family.

I'm not a huge fan of straight triggers outside of triggers that move in-line like 1911s, or a couple with very little travel. On most every design where the trigger moves around a fixed trigger pin, it can feel a little weird to me as I can feel the trigger push my finger up at first, then roll around my finger during movement as opposed to my finger nestling into the center of the curve comfortably. Straight triggers don't help locate my finger to a consistent spot as well as a curved trigger, but I do recognize they can give a slight improvement in the feel of the mechanical action of the trigger IMO. I personally like large radius curved triggers on most things, or designs like Apex triggers that have a curved top 1/2 to locate your finger, and a straight bottom 1/2 to give good feel. The best IMO is the shape of one particular Timney elite CE trigger shoe that has a flat face to give all the speed and feel of a flat trigger, and a little lip to help quickly place your finger in a consistent spot. As shown in the chart, there is all of .045" of movement, and it can be moved to the perfect reach/height/angle. That Timney blows everything else away, but was over-running the action when I tried it in my PCC, and the heavy reciprocating mass coupled with the light/short pull made it really prone to bump fire. In rifle cal's with a fast lightweight bolt/buffer it's the best, but for PCCs the GRF is a little slower with more movement to avoid bumping, and has proven more reliable.
trigger from my 320 X5 and replace it with the curved GG model trigger.

BUT You Can

calicojack said:

OBTW - very nice looking AR 9, rouchna, all your firearms seem to be top-shelf.

[EDIT] Arggh! I wished I lived in a state where I could SBR my AR9; must be 29" OAL!!!!

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You CAN SBR you little gun. Just get an extended buffer tube, and/or a folding stock adapter. The 29 inches is the overall length with the stock FULLY extended. Had the same issue with trying to SBR my Sig MPX, but found a company that made custom buffer tubes to get the extra 2 inches to meet the minimum length. Don't remember the name of the company, but I found them by Googling something like, "Stock extension for a Sig MPX," or some similar horsepoop.

ralph.mclean said:

You CAN SBR you little gun. Just get an extended buffer tube, and/or a folding stock adapter. The 29 inches is the overall length with the stock FULLY extended. Had the same issue with trying to SBR my Sig MPX, but found a company that made custom buffer tubes to get the extra 2 inches to meet the minimum length. Don't remember the name of the company, but I found them by Googling something like, "Stock extension for a Sig MPX," or some similar horsepoop.

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Will consider ...

I want to mention something else; the CMC trigger does not have a set screw to tighten up the assembly in the lower (my Timney trigger has set screws, and is much more expensive). The CMC does have anti-rotation pins. Now I have zero issues with mine; there is no movement or play once the trigger is cocked. But I have read reviews where some folks have complained of this. Can be remedied with a piece of rubber wedge.

calicojack said:

Well, ok, he would know. I have total confidence in SOTAR.

I guess Geissele does not want to deal with every single 9mm AR bolt type out there.

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I just wish I knew what was going though the minds of the designers at Rock River when they made (or overlooked) the decision to design their .40 cal AR’s to be compatible with / accept mil-spec triggers. Still kick myself for not discovering that until after I’d taken delivery. (That and what pricks they are as far as selling their proprietary .40 cal AR 20- and 32-rd stick mags...)

ralph.mclean said:

You CAN SBR you little gun. Just get an extended buffer tube, and/or a folding stock adapter. The 29 inches is the overall length with the stock FULLY extended. Had the same issue with trying to SBR my Sig MPX, but found a company that made custom buffer tubes to get the extra 2 inches to meet the minimum length. Don't remember the name of the company, but I found them by Googling something like, "Stock extension for a Sig MPX," or some similar horsepoop.

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All those gyrations to achieve what? A 9"-10.5" barrel? I don't even want 7" barrel on my 9mm SBR. I've got an AR9 "pistol" with a 5" barrel that shoots 3" groups at 100 yds. and that's with a 2moa Sig Romeo on it. The whole idea behind a 9mm SBR, IMHO, is to be very light and very short. I've got an AR9 SBR. It has an 11" barrel. I consider it a carbine.

YMMV

outrider58 said:

All those gyrations to achieve what? A 9"-10.5" barrel? I don't even want 7" barrel on my 9mm SBR. I've got an AR9 "pistol" with a 5" barrel that shoots 3" groups at 100 yds. and that's with a 2moa Sig Romeo on it. The whole idea behind a 9mm SBR, IMHO, is to be very light and very short. I've got an AR9 SBR. It has an 11" barrel. I consider it a carbine.

YMMV

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I have a pre-13 AR SBR with a 5” barrel. It may be my favorite gun.

teratos said:

I have a pre-13 AR SBR with a 5” barrel. It may be my favorite gun.

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Right?

The Clown's right. And now, I have an even smaller AR pistol with a five inch barrel.

Quote: I don't even want 7"


If only life was that easy....

I have to say; as much as I love having a real stock and an SBR, it does seem like a lot of trouble. Good thinking on coming up with a 29" OAL solution, but I probably will just wait until I retire and move to free America.

calicojack said:

I have to say; as much as I love having a real stock and an SBR, it does seem like a lot of trouble. Good thinking on coming up with a 29" OAL solution, but I probably will just wait until I retire and move to free America.

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You could do a permanently attached suppressor. That keeps it fun. I’m going to form 1 one eventually.

cokebuck said:

Quote: I don't even want 7"


If only life was that easy....

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Just ask my wife!

teratos said:

You could do a permanently attached suppressor. That keeps it fun. I’m going to form 1 one eventually.

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Hmm - I'll mull it over. I was going to say "I'll think long and hard about it", but given the current discussion I will be more careful about my wording.