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Old July 15th, 2017, 01:33 AM #1
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STG 44 From Hill and Mac Gunworks

This is a quote from their FB page.

"Oh! also side note: after some help by a customer we were able to get the StG removed from the Maryland rifle ban list. Pretty solid win we think."

Check these guys out...

https://www.hmgunworks.com/shop/

HMG is making a StG44 from scratch in 4 calibers. The original 7.92X33 Kurtz, 5.56X45, 7.62X39, and 300 Blackout. All calibers are fully interchangeable with a conversion kit. It uses standard AR15 style magazines. HMG does make a reproduction magazine that looks like a traditional StG 44 that will hold 50 rounds of 5.56 or 300BLK. That means you can get a 50 round magazine (if out of state) for your AR15 from them.

https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/h...wehr-magazine/

The rifle uses standard HK style semi trigger packs. The ejector lever is removed due to the fact the ejector is built into the trunnion. That means, you can use a semi-auto trigger pack from a HK 91, 93, or MP5. Just remove the ejector lever and it should drop right in.



I ordered one in 300 Blackout with a 7.62X39 conversion kit.

They told me, that if you ordered one today, you should get it around Christmas time.

Very cool and exciting for us WWII history/firearms buffs.

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Old July 15th, 2017, 01:52 AM #2
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I was pretty hyped for this project from the get-go, but as more photos and videos of the rifles started to crop up my excitement diminished pretty quickly.
I can overlook the stampings being pretty crude looking compared to an original (especially that FCG area... yikes) or a few details missing here and there, but the fact that the thing doesn't even have the controls in the same location as a real STG is a real dealbreaker for me.
I honestly don't see the target market for this thing. Serious collectors will turn their noses up at the concessions made to cut costs, and practical shooters would probably rather spend $1800 on a kitted-out AR.
What do you guys think?
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Old July 15th, 2017, 02:15 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold Thief View Post
I was pretty hyped for this project from the get-go, but as more photos and videos of the rifles started to crop up my excitement diminished pretty quickly.
I can overlook the stampings being pretty crude looking compared to an original (especially that FCG area... yikes) or a few details missing here and there, but the fact that the thing doesn't even have the controls in the same location as a real STG is a real dealbreaker for me.
I honestly don't see the target market for this thing. Serious collectors will turn their noses up at the concessions made to cut costs, and practical shooters would probably rather spend $1800 on a kitted-out AR.
What do you guys think?
I am excited about it. I have wanted a StG 44 since grade school. The original ones go for $30K plus. Not realistic for me. There hasn't been anything like this except for the GSG .22 ones. Yuck! I almost bought one of those just to get a StG 44 that would shoot anything. I am not trying to insult you or any collector, but I am not a gun snob. Would I like the controls to be closer to the original? Sure. That is hardly a deal breaker. I kind of like that the fire control group parts can be found just about anywhere in case something (spring) does need replaced.

I had a chance to buy a Robinson M96 years ago for $600. I turned my nose up at it because it was not close enough to a Stoner 63 for my liking. I will not do that again. Lesson learned.

Mine is on order. I am going to love it.




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Last edited by TinCuda; July 15th, 2017 at 03:34 AM.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 06:32 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold Thief View Post
I was pretty hyped for this project from the get-go, but as more photos and videos of the rifles started to crop up my excitement diminished pretty quickly.
I can overlook the stampings being pretty crude looking compared to an original (especially that FCG area... yikes) or a few details missing here and there, but the fact that the thing doesn't even have the controls in the same location as a real STG is a real dealbreaker for me.
I honestly don't see the target market for this thing. Serious collectors will turn their noses up at the concessions made to cut costs, and practical shooters would probably rather spend $1800 on a kitted-out AR.
What do you guys think?
This. It's a lot of money for something that's just an aesthetic facsimile rather than a reproduction of the real thing.

Now, the SMG Guns FG42, on the other hand...
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Old July 15th, 2017, 09:43 AM #5
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Originally Posted by Steve_Zissou View Post
This. It's a lot of money for something that's just an aesthetic facsimile rather than a reproduction of the real thing.

Now, the SMG Guns FG42, on the other hand...
I bought a GSG MP40p. It's a MP40 replica that shoots 9mm imported by American Tactical Imports (ATI). That is a aesthetic facsimile. It is cast in zinc and only looks like a MP40. Nothing is interchangeable with an original WWII MP40. Not even the magazines. The internals are completely different. That was a gun designed from the ground up to look like an MP40 and shoot 9mm. It cost me a little under $500.

The HMG StG 44 is a little different. Other than a few "improvements", Hill and Mac claims many parts are interchangeable with an original StG 44. Just to name a few from the top of my head, the stock (not the cap), the fore end, sights, most of the gas system, bolt, grip panels, etc.,. The gas piston/bolt/action system works the same as an original. You would get the same feel from the rifle.

The HK trigger pack was their way to satisfy the BATFE with a FCG that was harder to convert to full auto than using original parts.

The Barrel/trunnion/gas system was developed to be able to shoot multiple calibers. This is due to the original 7.69X33 (8mm Kurtz) ammo is expensive and hard to get. They wanted to offer the rifle in the original caliber and in calibers that you could actually get if you wanted to use the rifle in some of the increasing popular era or vintage rifle shoots. This is a long way from a cost saving design.

I think if you take a closer look at this rifle, you will find that it is much more than a mere aesthetic facsimile.

I do agree. This is not for everyone. It is not practical or completely authentic. It is the best thing that I have found so far if you want a StG 44 that an average Joe can afford.


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Old July 15th, 2017, 09:45 AM #6
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Definitely more than a facsimile with some common aspects of the original operating systems. Unlike the ATI cast molds with gun parts in them that close up don't look that great.

That said would have hoped for more accurate aesthetic touches and finish on a gun of that price point. A few small changes would go a long way.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:04 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbob2.0 View Post
Definitely more than a facsimile with some common aspects of the original operating systems. Unlike the ATI cast molds with gun parts in them that close up don't look that great.

That said would have hoped for more accurate aesthetic touches and finish on a gun of that price point. A few small changes would go a long way.
Jimbob2.0 please ignore my over explanation of the StG 44. I am only describing the rifle for folks that are reading this post whom may not know.

The original StG 44 had a safe/fire switch/lever that worked backwards of more modern designs. Down was safe, up was fire. It also had a separate push button switch located higher above the safety switch that allowed you to select between single fire and full auto. The HMG StG 44 will come with a HK trigger pack that works in a more modern/traditional way. A single selector switch for fire mode and safety.

If I recall correctly, early on, HMG asked the question if people were interested in them simulating non-functioning controls. To put it another way. Do you want it to look correct to the original, or do you want everything installed and only what is installed to work.

Kind of a tricky question to make everyone happy.

They even put it to a vote for how dark of a wood stain to use on the rifle stock.



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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:17 AM #8
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Here is a side by side of the fire control lower receiver if anyone is interested.

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Old July 15th, 2017, 10:28 AM #9
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I hope the Franklin binary trigger for Hk would be compatible.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 11:00 AM #10
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Old July 15th, 2017, 12:53 PM #11
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I've always dreamed of having an STG-44. I'll buy one of the HMG's if it works good. Unless I hit the lottery, it'd be the closest I'd get to owning an original. The design difference of the HMG doesn't bother me as long as it works.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 01:44 PM #12
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It's a hot mess. If you want to build an MP44 replica, build an MP44 replica. If you want to build a HK93 replica, build a HK93 replica. Instead we get the abortion of a union between the two:

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Old July 15th, 2017, 02:02 PM #13
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It's a hot mess. If you want to build an MP44 replica, build an MP44 replica. If you want to build a HK93 replica, build a HK93 replica. Instead we get the abortion of a union between the two:

Exactly. I really like HMG otherwise, especially with what they're doing to get people into parts kit building with their Cetme L maker kits, but I really struggle to understand what they were trying to accomplish with this Stg 44 build.

It seems like they spent a ton on tooling for an obscure replica of a rifle that really only appeals to one of the most die-hard detail-obsessed enthusiast groups in the shooting sports. And it comes in at a price point where you're now only a few more paychecks worth of saving away from something much more cool/authentic like SMG's FG 42 replica.

It would be like building a "new-build replica" of the classic 300SL Gullwing that fudged major details/proportions but looked sort of like the real thing from 30 feet away, used a Miata powertrain to save development costs, and had conventional doors because that made DOT/NHTSA approval easier, but still cost over $80k new anyway.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 02:23 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Zissou View Post
Exactly. ... would be like building a "new-build replica" of the classic 300SL Gullwing that fudged major details/proportions but looked sort of like the real thing from 30 feet away, used a Miata powertrain to save development costs, and had conventional doors because that made DOT/NHTSA approval easier, but still cost over $80k new anyway.
Agree. I was excited when I saw the thread title. Pictures of the product are a major let down.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 05:17 PM #15
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I get it. It is not for everyone. My goal was not to convince anyone to buy one. I just wanted to let folks know that it is available in Maryland. I am excited about it. I am not going to miss out on this opportunity.


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Old July 15th, 2017, 06:07 PM #16
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I like the fact that it uses some hk internals. Would like to see some reviews from independant shooter's.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:05 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCuda View Post
I get it. It is not for everyone. My goal was not to convince anyone to buy one. I just wanted to let folks know that it is available in Maryland. I am excited about it. I am not going to miss out on this opportunity.


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That's the way I understood it. There are guns that I like that probably don't tickle your fancy as well.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:24 PM #18
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Originally Posted by Combloc View Post
It's a hot mess. If you want to build an MP44 replica, build an MP44 replica. If you want to build a HK93 replica, build a HK93 replica. Instead we get the abortion of a union between the two:

Yup. I'd buy a reasonably accurate copy. I've got no interest in something that's cosmetically similar from 20ft away but nothing else.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:26 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Zissou View Post

It would be like building a "new-build replica" of the classic 300SL Gullwing that fudged major details/proportions but looked sort of like the real thing from 30 feet away, used a Miata powertrain to save development costs, and had conventional doors because that made DOT/NHTSA approval easier, but still cost over $80k new anyway.
I like this analogy. It's the firearm equivalent to a kit car.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 08:45 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Zissou View Post
.

And it comes in at a price point where you're now only a few more paychecks worth of saving away from something much more cool/authentic like SMG's FG 42 replica.

.

SMG did it the right way. No, it's not perfect but neither was the original design. They beefed up the internals to help with the issue of parts breakage which is very welcome. But the basic design is over 70 years old so it's less than 100% reliable. I'm still working the bugs out of mine. It's VERY close to the original. Other than patina, it's hard to tell the original from the replica:










Here are a couple examples of old compared to new to illustrate what I mean by beefed up parts:







When you get into this kind of expensive stuff, you gotta' respect the visual details or you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

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