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Old June 29th, 2017, 03:50 PM #1
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Any .22's fail?

I've seen a lot of articles in which a person uses a .22 of some kind for the defense of self or home. Usually the intruder is killed or seriously injured. Like the 92 year old WW2 vt who used a .22 rifle to shoot and kill burger. Or the case in Savage Maryland where a guy used a .22 to shoot an estranged and divorced husband of his lady when the estranged hubby that had a restraining order against him, kicked in the front door and the current boyfriend shot and killed him with a .22. One round right in the chest.

Growing up in a bad part of D.C., I saw some violence first hand, and in two occasions a .22 handgun was used, and the shooter killed the shootie. I also witnessed the immediate aftermath of two shootings with .22's when I was a police officer in Colorado. None of the shot people were up and around after taking a shot in the center torso area. Yet, when the subject of using a .22 for defense of any kind comes up people go semi nuts and claim it's just one step from suicide. I've even heard the idiotic saying that if you shoot someone with a .22, and he finds out about it, he'll be very angry with you.

So...does anyone have any provable examples of a .22 NOT working in a defensive scenario and resulting in the injury or demise of the defender shooter?

I mean real incidents, not a friend of a brother in law heard of a guy that...

I know there are real LEO's on this forums, not just keyboard commando's, and I would like to hear from them in particular.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 04:05 PM #2
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Any weapon is better than none. Then comes shot placement. Hitting a perp in the hand or thigh with a 22LR is probably is going to fail. Hitting him in the heart or eye is probably going to stop an attack.

I don't know of anyone who has used a 22LR for protection. But I can say that I wouldn't want to trust my life on a 22LR, unless that's all I have. Then it would be a full mag dump to ensure the great possibility of success.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 04:11 PM #3
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My main concern with 22LR is feeding. Seems more finicky than full size centerfire rounds. That said, I can pepper a moving 8 inch steel circle at 50 yards without a sweat so there's no doubt the lack of power can be mitigated by the fact it's so damn easy to shoot quickly and accurately.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 04:14 PM #4
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Quote:
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My main concern with 22LR is feeding. Seems more finicky than full size centerfire rounds. That said, I can pepper a moving 8 inch steel circle at 50 yards without a sweat so there's no doubt the lack of power can be mitigated by the fact it's so damn easy to shoot quickly and accurately.
The guns in question are Smith and Wesson 317 revolver, S&W model 63 revolver, and Marlin 39 lever action rifle. No semi autos at all. A mix of 8 shot revolves and lever action rifles.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:01 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_h_smith View Post
Any weapon is better than none. Then comes shot placement. Hitting a perp in the hand or thigh with a 22LR is probably is going to fail. Hitting him in the heart or eye is probably going to stop an attack.

I don't know of anyone who has used a 22LR for protection. But I can say that I wouldn't want to trust my life on a 22LR, unless that's all I have. Then it would be a full mag dump to ensure the great possibility of success.
Well that settles it my main defense gun now is my MP5 in 22lr, 25 round mag and the perps chest will look like that carnival game where you have to shoot out the star.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:03 PM #6
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Not that I make it a habit to mug people... but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be shot by a .22, and someone pulling one would probably deter me from nefarious action.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:03 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrumann59 View Post
Well that settles it my main defense gun now is my MP5 in 22lr, 25 round mag and the perps chest will look like that carnival game where you have to shoot out the star.
Has anyone ever won that game?? Oh so close, so many times

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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:26 PM #8
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A cylinder full of Mini Mag or Velocitor out of a 4" barrel will ruin a bad guy's night real quick. Recoil is near zero to keep multiple shots on target.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 06:40 PM #9
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It is better than a mean look and has advantages over a sharp, heavy stick (unless you're within stabbing range). That said, it requires much more precision than a larger caliber might. There was a time in my life when my home defense gun was a 10/22 with a 25 round mag of lead round nose ammo. I figured that the lrn gave me the best chance of reaching fatal depth and that I could probably keep every shot between the nipples, collar bone and belly button. When I could afford a 12ga, the Ruger retired.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 08:29 PM #10
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If all I had for defense was an 8 shot 22 revolver, I'd do a lot of practicing of accurate speed shooting. I have some 1,500 FPS .22 LR. If you could reliably get 5 of 8 in the 10 ring and 8 of 8 in the 9 ring shooting fast double action, I think you'd be in decent shape. In all honesty though, if your budget is a constraint, I'd get an entry level 12 gauge pump like a Maverick 88 and some 2 3/4" 00 Buck. Five decently placed shots of 00 is like shooting up to 45 rounds of 380 FMJ.


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Old June 29th, 2017, 08:58 PM #11
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There's always this:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

and a reasonable review of it:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-self-defense/

I bought my 84 year old mother who lives alone a Ruger Single-Ten after she confessed that she didn't like shooting the .380 or 9mm. She's very happy with the .22, and shoots it well.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 11:30 PM #12
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There is potentially fatal ... Eventually , and having having the shootee fall down and stop moving in a meaningfully short time frame. The first and the second are not necessarily linked.

Pretty much any firearm is preferable to harsh glare and strong language. A substantial if indefinable percentage of miscreants will be disuaded by the prospect of being shot with any firearm. Another substantial if indefinable percentage of miscreants will be dissuaded from continuing their evil actions by any wound, even if not physically incapacitating.

But for .22lr handguns to have decisive ( whatever you call it ) requires precise shot placement. Not simply " mostly center of mass " , but specifically like eye socket or left ventricle. Ideally with a whole buncha rounds. But malfactors don't always cooperate in obligingly providing good stationary targets of themselves.

The OP's pistols are full sized, and suited for accurate, controlled fire, which is relatively good. A full sized .22WMR pistol, or .22lr Rifle would be better yet.


Multiple disclaimers - No, still not voluntarily getting shot by .22lr . This discussion does not address orthopedic pistols, for those with substantial physical limitations.
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Old June 29th, 2017, 11:47 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggfoot44 View Post
The OP's pistols are full sized, and suited for accurate, controlled fire, which is relatively good. A full sized .22WMR pistol, or .22lr Rifle would be better.

22 Mag is a bad boy. Some of those rounds travel at 2,300 FPS and have ballistic tips. When I put the 22 Mag cylinder in my Heritage Rough Rider and send a few down range, it's pretty obvious this isn't your garden variety 22.




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Old June 30th, 2017, 12:19 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knastera View Post
22 Mag is a bad boy. Some of those rounds travel at 2,300 FPS and have ballistic tips. When I put the 22 Mag cylinder in my Heritage Rough Rider and send a few down range, it's pretty obvious this isn't your garden variety 22.
I've got one of those ordered (9 round, 6.5" barrel), and 500 rounds of 40 grain jacketed hollow point ammo. Supposedly 1875 fps but probably higher coming out of a 6.5" barrel. I don't think anybody wants to get hit by one of those babies !
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Old June 30th, 2017, 12:36 AM #15
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Ah, no . Those 1800-2000 plus fps numbers you see are for Rifles.

From a 5.5 to 6.5in bbl revolver expect vels with 40gr to run 1300-1400fps . Velocities are sensitive to small variations in b/c gap and throat dimentions, so there will be differenced between revolvers of same bbl length, even same model from same mfg.

Mind you, that is Good and desireable thing, and I am an outspoken fan of such.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 01:18 AM #16
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Quote:
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Ah, no . Those 1800-2000 plus fps numbers you see are for Rifles.

From a 5.5 to 6.5in bbl revolver expect vels with 40gr to run 1300-1400fps . Velocities are sensitive to small variations in b/c gap and throat dimentions, so there will be differenced between revolvers of same bbl length, even same model from same mfg.

Mind you, that is Good and desireable thing, and I am an outspoken fan of such.
Learn something new every day. Extrapolating from that I guess would mean that 1250fps 22lr will "only" be around 950.

Still wouldn't wanna get nailed by one of those
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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:35 AM #17
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I have seen someone shot with a 22lr up close and personnel. My brother still blames me for getting shot in the foot. He was not too frisky after being hit.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 05:49 AM #18
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Sounds like a story there :-)
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Old June 30th, 2017, 06:19 AM #19
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I have seen someone shot with a 22lr up close and personnel. My brother still blames me for getting shot in the foot. He was not too frisky after being hit.
shot placement is a big factor. even a grenade through the hand can be non-lethal.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/234382...orribly-wrong/

this would probably result in a bad time
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Old June 30th, 2017, 06:52 AM #20
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It varies from brand to brand, and lot to lot, but yes , .22lr "hi speed" 40gr typically goes 900-somthing fps from 4in bbl revolver . ( Likewise for snubs and mini's in .22WMR .)

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