PSA...please check primer pockets after tumbling

Doco Overboard · Jun 2, 2020

Looks like the radius f the primer cup took a hit to flame cutting. Thats the part of the primer that is work hardened from being formed into a cup so it could be a tad harder than the rest of the primer material. The flat face of it needs to be soft enough not become pierced but strong enough to control a certain amount of pressure.
Size of the flash hole could have something to do with it as well as the brand/lot of the primer and then how the sheet of primer cup material was pressed out to make them. Looks like the flame cutting came from inside the primer cup and not from around it so the skirt apparently did its job.
I bet the bolt face has become pitted. That sucks.

erwos · Jun 2, 2020

Yeah, the primer has a pretty powerful jet of flame, a little media blockage is going to just get vaporized or blown out of the way. Either the primer pockets are out of spec or they got some genuinely defective primers (which I rate as unlikely). Some reloaders reuse their cases WAY longer than they should.

Speed3 · Jul 12, 2020

Just a follow up, he contacted federal and the lot of primers was 12 years old. Federal said that after 10 years, the unfired primer material can start to eat through the cup.

willtill · Jul 12, 2020

Speed3 said:
Just a follow up, he contacted federal and the lot of primers was 12 years old. Federal said that after 10 years, the unfired primer material can start to eat through the cup.

Really? Then their commercial ammunition has a very short shelf life.

Pinecone · Jul 12, 2020

Hmm, then why are people not having problems with 60s military ammo? And even older commercial ammo.

Speed3 · Jul 12, 2020

Pinecone said:
Hmm, then why are people not having problems with 60s military ammo? And even older commercial ammo.

Just relaying the info

atblis · Jul 13, 2020

Pinecone said:
Hmm, then why are people not having problems with 60s military ammo? And even older commercial ammo.

Plenty of people do have problems with 60s ammo. Some don't...

PowPow · Jul 13, 2020

Speed3 said:
Just a follow up, he contacted federal and the lot of primers was 12 years old. Federal said that after 10 years, the unfired primer material can start to eat through the cup.

That's horrifying!

Pinecone · Jul 13, 2020

atblis said:
Plenty of people do have problems with 60s ammo. Some don't...

Details?

With the primers?

Many people shooting even older ammo.

erwos · Jul 13, 2020

I've had hangfires with old ammo before, but this was typically related to bad storage conditions.

Pinecone · Jul 14, 2020

Just saying, I also hang out on CMP forums, and people there are shooting some VERY old ammo.

And I have NEVER heard of a primer blowout like this.

Speed3 · Jul 14, 2020

Pinecone said:
Just saying, I also hang out on CMP forums, and people there are shooting some VERY old ammo.

And I have NEVER heard of a primer blowout like this.

Just because YOU'VE never experienced/heard of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen or likely the cause. This particular gentlemen shoots VERY often and knowledgeable. He is a high master in both long/mid range fclass and usually places in the top 3 at regionals etc. So I will take him at his word over someone on the internet.

Ken Livengood is another shooter there and can vouch. Google Ken's name, accomplished shooter and gunsmith.

Feel free to contact Federal and ask them about their large match primers and the cups.

Park ranger · Jul 14, 2020

Speed, I've seen that before when pushing a 80 grain smk at 2830 out of a 20" barrel. It happens at high pressures. Not saying over pressure but top end for sure. I dont think its media in the flash hole. Primer pocket got loose, gas came out.

Unrelated....I've trash lapua brass in 3 shots. Wont hold a primer, but man did it shoot good. Lol

Speed3 · Jul 14, 2020

Park ranger said:
Speed, I've seen that before when pushing a 80 grain smk at 2830 out of a 20" barrel. It happens at high pressures. Not saying over pressure but top end for sure. I dont think its media in the flash hole. Primer pocket got loose, gas came out.

Unrelated....I've trash lapua brass in 3 shots. Wont hold a primer, but man did it shoot good. Lol

At first that was the assumption, but later found out it wasn't.

Sidenote, got the 6BR at dasher speeds...going to test at the palma shoot this weekend in PA, you coming?

Seabee · Jul 14, 2020

There have been cases of Winchester large rifle primers piercing and blowing at the side of the primer near the radius. Winchester had a recall on them. Call Winchester 1-618-258-2738 Sharon.
Here are the affected lot numbers reported by users.
LOTS REPORTED BY USERS ONLINE:

CAL401G
CFL486G
CLL555G
DAL594G
DFL717G
DHL766G
DNL 837G
DNL836G
EAL234G
GDL 225G
GEL 250G
DML834G WLR
EAL234G WLRM
CLL555G
CCL435G
EHL067G
DHL774G
DHL788G
DAL594G
CAL401G
GDL255G
GFL284G
DGL741G
FEL255G
DGL731G
DKL801G
HLL692G
DHL765G
DFL713G
DLL826G
DFL723G
DEL690G
CLL552G
DGL747G

LOTS IN MY POSSESSION RECALLED BY WINCHESTER:

CGL499G
HKL687G

Sharon got back to me this morning. She wants the following lots back:

HBL
HFL
DHL
HCL
HAL

Just off the phone with Sharon. They want all mine back - here are the Lot Numbers:

WLRM:
DFL188G

WLR:
DEL702G
DFL719G
GEL258G
DFL722 G
I reported the 5 lot numbers I have on hand and Sharon called today wanting all of them back.
BDL
DHL
CFL
EFL
DFL

Found this on another site. I personally have never used Winchester primers

Park ranger · Jul 14, 2020

Speed3 said:
At first that was the assumption, but later found out it wasn't.

Sidenote, got the 6BR at dasher speeds...going to test at the palma shoot this weekend in PA, you coming?

Was going to, emailed Tom a month ago I would. But the 6.5 shooting 150 grain SMK blew 2 bullets mid flight out of 25. Of course, I've loaded 300 of them. If I can get something figured out I might make it. Otherwise, I'll just enjoy my camping trip at the nearby state park.

Uncle Duke · Jul 14, 2020

Seabee said:
There have been cases of Winchester large rifle primers piercing and blowing at the side of the primer near the radius. Winchester had a recall on them. Call Winchester 1-618-258-2738 Sharon.
Here are the affected lot numbers reported by users.
LOTS REPORTED BY USERS ONLINE:

CAL401G
CFL486G
CLL555G
DAL594G
DFL717G
DHL766G
DNL 837G
DNL836G
EAL234G
GDL 225G
GEL 250G
DML834G WLR
EAL234G WLRM
CLL555G
CCL435G
EHL067G
DHL774G
DHL788G
DAL594G
CAL401G
GDL255G
GFL284G
DGL741G
FEL255G
DGL731G
DKL801G
HLL692G
DHL765G
DFL713G
DLL826G
DFL723G
DEL690G
CLL552G
DGL747G

LOTS IN MY POSSESSION RECALLED BY WINCHESTER:

CGL499G
HKL687G

Sharon got back to me this morning. She wants the following lots back:

HBL
HFL
DHL
HCL
HAL

Just off the phone with Sharon. They want all mine back - here are the Lot Numbers:

WLRM:
DFL188G

WLR:
DEL702G
DFL719G
GEL258G
DFL722 G
I reported the 5 lot numbers I have on hand and Sharon called today wanting all of them back.
BDL
DHL
CFL
EFL
DFL

Found this on another site. I personally have never used Winchester primers

Seabee, thank you for posting this!

To add onto Seabee's mention on RIFLE primers, I have seen mention of several lots of large PISTOL primers, as possibly being suspect also. Sounds like we need to be checking what we might have on hand.

https://www.handloadersbench.com/fo...ets-and-brass/819811-winchester-primer-recall

85MikeTPI · Jul 14, 2020

Wait, I thought the issue was with Federal Primers (old) blowing out, now it's Winchester. It is the same issue being branded by diff mfg, or diff issues that just happen to have the same behavior?

Jerry M · Jul 14, 2020

When a primer blows out in the skirt area, it’s USUALLY a bad primer. I’ve had two bad batches of primers over the decades: Federal match in the 80’s and more recently Winchester when they changed from chrome plated to brass. All loads were known safe loads. All blew out the skirt area. I recommend your friend pull down all the loads made with these primers. Notify the manufacturer if the lot numbers of the primers are known.

Good luck

Jerry

Uncle Duke · Jul 14, 2020

85MikeTPI said:
Wait, I thought the issue was with Federal Primers (old) blowing out, now it's Winchester. It is the same issue being branded by diff mfg, or diff issues that just happen to have the same behavior?

That's a great question! I don't have an answer, but I will say that if you look at the primers pictured in posts 11 and 18, they are different colors, and likely different manufacturers. One primer pictured is nickel plated. The other primer pictured is not....it is brass only.

Brass only primers (in recent years at least) could very well be Winchester. Nickel plated could indeed be Federal, but nickel appearance is also possibly other manufacturers as well.

Maybe the poster of #11 and #18 (paging Speed) can lend additional info regarding the primer brands used that show in the pictures.

I have myself made contact with Winchester. If I think their reply to my specific lot related questions could be helpful to others here, I will post the info I receive for the benefit of all.

PSA...please check primer pockets after tumbling

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