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  • outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    You don't owe anything to a guy running at you who's holding a knife.
    He's made up his mind.

    I have 34 years experience as an HVAC contractor.

    Oh yeah? Well I have almost 45 years experience as a flooring contractor...

    Okay, you win...:D
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    He waited too long because the guy was well within 21 feet when the shooting started. It's not a knock on the Sergeant at all. He clearly shot as an absolute last resort. I'm just grateful that his hesitation (in the hopes the suspect would stop) didn't get my friend hurt or killed.

    My training and experience is 18 years as a police officer, 13 of which were in this exact neighborhood. Same training and experience as the Sergeant had. I think he did a phenomenal job handling that scene, talking to the suspect to calm him, moving around to maintain visual, knowing his surroundings and calling out and telling a bystander to go back inside.

    My comment about waiting too long wasn't meant to be critical by any means.


    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

    :thumbsup: good level headed and respectful response!
     

    spoon059

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 1, 2018
    5,336
    He didn't wait too long. What was the negative outcome? Nothing.

    If you just stand by "21 feet"; with nothing else nowadays, when you can still add some cool pause, you're probably not helping yourself.

    So you would have shot a guy holding a knife who is just standing there? And claim "21 feet"?

    You owe the person a little more than that before you take their life. Especially when you have the advantage.
    Not sure what your deal is, but you need to stop attempting to extrapolate data.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    Something like 2 seconds between the guy starting his charge and hitting the dirt. Way too close for comfort.
    Because you aren't confident with your shooting skills. Just like most street cops. Twice a year to the range to qualify.

    He didn't wait too long.
    Oh, and the Teuller drill, is 21 feet from the officer .
    The officer has to DRAW his handgun.
    Funny how people with "experience" don't know this little quirk.
    This officer was already drawn on the threat.
    He had all the time in the world. Which he took, and kudos to him for taking all the time he needed.
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,019
    Glenelg
    yes

    [Kev308];5894322 said:
    He probably waited because it was a moving target and in the background was peoples homes. To me it looked like a flawless shooting.

    To me, the best thing the guy did was rush the officer (due to the officer having to shoot). When he was backing up between the cars, all I thought about was the townhouses directly behind him.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    Not sure what your deal is, but you need to stop attempting to extrapolate data.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    Data? The Teuller drill is 21 feet from drawing from the holster. You're the one who brought it up. Hate being corrected?
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,157
    To me, the best thing the guy did was rush the officer (due to the officer having to shoot). When he was backing up between the cars, all I thought about was the townhouses directly behind him.

    There were town houses behind both shot scenarios. I would not want to have to think “am I going to I hit a little kid” while I’m trying to mow down a crazy man.
     

    randomuser

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 12, 2018
    5,775
    Baltimore County
    Because you aren't confident with your shooting skills. Just like most street cops. Twice a year to the range to qualify.

    He didn't wait too long.
    Oh, and the Teuller drill, is 21 feet from the officer .
    The officer has to DRAW his handgun.
    Funny how people with "experience" don't know this little quirk.
    This officer was already drawn on the threat.
    He had all the time in the world. Which he took, and kudos to him for taking all the time he needed.

    I have disagreed with many of your posts in the past...on this one...spot on...your assessment on this one is spot on..on so many levels....

    Great posts on this thread....thank you.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Folks need to give up on the "21 foot rule". The only rule you need to follow is would a "reasonable" officer in the exact situation be justified in discharging their firearm. If the answer is "yes" then the distance doesn't matter. When presented with the full facts (be mindful we weren't we just saw a video) would a reasonable officer be justified in the shooting. I don't think there is a court in the America, that based on the video alone, would find it illegal. Even if he had been *gasp* 22 feet way at the time of the first discharge. There's so much more than just distance that 21 feet is pure garbage at this point. I don't want someone on top hoping my first 2-3 rounds worked. But that's just me.

    Of all the things to critique the "waiting to long" or "waited just enough" isn't the conversation. If you wanted to critique you'd begin with the repetitive commands to do the same thing. While I get it is hard how about doing something other than "drop the knife". Would it had mattered in this situation? Probably not. But it wasn't working so perhaps attempt some other kind of conversation starting. That's attempting to deescalate.

    But that's my hardest critique of what I'd consider a legally sufficient shooting.
     

    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    16,924
    [Kev308];5894322 said:
    He probably waited because it was a moving target and in the background was peoples homes. To me it looked like a flawless shooting.

    This. To me it looked like the perp was clear of the townhouse before he started shooting.
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,019
    Glenelg
    yeah true

    There were town houses behind both shot scenarios. I would not want to have to think “am I going to I hit a little kid” while I’m trying to mow down a crazy man.

    yeah.. true but at least the guy with the knife was coming closer, like a goalie does to limit the angle to the goal. Bad analogy but works for me.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    Because you aren't confident with your shooting skills. Just like most street cops. Twice a year to the range to qualify.

    He didn't wait too long.
    Oh, and the Teuller drill, is 21 feet from the officer .
    The officer has to DRAW his handgun.
    Funny how people with "experience" don't know this little quirk.
    This officer was already drawn on the threat.
    He had all the time in the world. Which he took, and kudos to him for taking all the time he needed.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm far from criticising the officer's performance, just trying to express my shock at how insanely rapidly the situation shifted from a guy standing with a knife, to his covering so much ground in such a short time. I'm very pleased that the officer was able to stop the attack without injury to his person.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    Don't get me wrong, I'm far from criticising the officer's performance, just trying to express my shock at how insanely rapidly the situation shifted from a guy standing with a knife, to his covering so much ground in such a short time. I'm very pleased that the officer was able to stop the attack without injury to his person.
    :thumbsup:


    Another loser of the 21 foot rule test:

     

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