PSA (Maybe)- DC Permit Holders Ammunition Management

Stoveman · Oct 21, 2019

I took my COF this evening and according to the instructor the DC City Council has recently made two changes.

1. If you carry a firearm with less than 10 rd capacity you are now only allowed to carry enough ammo to fully load your firearm twice. If you carry a gun with a six round mag + 1 in the pipe you are now only allowed to carry 14 rds total, down from 20.

If you carry a mag with 10 rd capacity you can still only carry 20 rds total and must download one mag if carrying with one in the pipe.

2. Possessing a magazine >10 rds is now a felony with a 5 year sentence for each offense.

Full disclosure - I have not been able to verify this information.

He also told me something else that was interesting, he says that in 2017 there were nine justified shootings by permit holders, in 2018 that number rose to 29 and this year is on pace to have 65.

If true that's a lot less victims and more bad guys getting ventilated in our nation's capitol.

StantonCree · Oct 21, 2019

i just had training on this but let me get clarity and report back to you but i don’t believe him to be correct in 2/3 of that!

Occam · Oct 21, 2019

My instructor (just wrapped my 16 DC hours on Sunday) was George Lyon. He seems VERY up on the current DC twists and turns. He relayed the exact same info.

Highly recommend his class, BTW. Used him for DC and to cover my MD renewal class at the same time. Met his partner at the range today to sling lead for that part of DC and MD’s requirements. Was enjoying it enough to shoot a 492/500, and it always feels great to learn some new things.

Abacab · Oct 22, 2019

Stoveman said:
I took my COF this evening and according to the instructor the DC City Council has recently made two changes.

1. If you carry a firearm with less than 10 rd capacity you are now only allowed to carry enough ammo to fully load your firearm twice. If you carry a gun with a six round mag + 1 in the pipe you are now only allowed to carry 14 rds total, down from 20.

If you carry a mag with 10 rd capacity you can still only carry 20 rds total and must download one mag if carrying with one in the pipe.

2. Possessing a magazine >10 rds is now a felony with a 5 year sentence for each offense.

Full disclosure - I have not been able to verify this information.

He also told me something else that was interesting, he says that in 2017 there were nine justified shootings by permit holders, in 2018 that number rose to 29 and this year is on pace to have 65.

If true that's a lot less victims and more bad guys getting ventilated in our nation's capitol.

1) this is what George Lyon told me when I took the class in 2018 about how much ammo you're allowed. Basically one reload and/or maximum 20 rounds.

2) according to George's blog, it is indeed a felony.

K31 · Oct 22, 2019

Because, of course, mass shooters, armed robbers, and assorted other gun-wielding criminals don't want to risk that extra felony charge when they are caught or are dead.

welder516 · Oct 22, 2019

These hurdles and rules/laws are only in place to cause hesitation and angst and fear for law abiding persons and nothing more . These creations are done for a purpose and not about public safety IMHO

Doctor_M · Oct 22, 2019

The a$$hattery of this hurts my head.

Doctor_M · Oct 22, 2019

BTW... are you allowed to carry more than one weapon. Seems like folks may need to start relying on the NY reload (perhaps in different calibers, just to make it legal). <Insert scene from "I'm Gonna Get You Sucka" here> Sigh.

GTOGUNNER · Oct 22, 2019

Doctor_M said:
BTW... are you allowed to carry more than one weapon. Seems like folks may need to start relying on the NY reload (perhaps in different calibers, just to make it legal). <Insert scene from "I'm Gonna Get You Sucka" here> Sigh.

I like that 2 registrations anyway. Sounds like a plan. Let's not ask Dc.

Biggfoot44 · Oct 22, 2019

7rd 1911 x2 , plus 6 shot revolver.

Occam · Oct 22, 2019

It is maddening. One of the main reasons for pursuing my DC permit is to keep myself out of legal jeopardy if I unwitttingly cross from MD into DC, or am forced to (as I have been more than once) because of some river-crossing traffic madness. The irony here is that if I were to go into DC with a DC permit but while carrying my familiar MD rig, I'd be every bit the felon as if I didn't have that DC permit in the first place.

One thing I forgot to ask George in the class: what the hell happens when you're on your way to/from the range and have a couple hundred rounds (at least!) in the car with you? Or, because it's DC, spent brass in a bag ... since they consider spent brass to BE ammunition?

BlueHeeler · Oct 22, 2019

Stoveman said:
I took my COF this evening and according to the instructor the DC City Council has recently made two changes.

1. If you carry a firearm with less than 10 rd capacity you are now only allowed to carry enough ammo to fully load your firearm twice. If you carry a gun with a six round mag + 1 in the pipe you are now only allowed to carry 14 rds total, down from 20.

If you carry a mag with 10 rd capacity you can still only carry 20 rds total and must download one mag if carrying with one in the pipe.

True story, but the law is from 2017.

24-2343. Ammunition Carried by Licensee.
2343.1 A person issued a concealed carry license by the Chief, while carrying the pistol, shall not carry more ammunition than is required to fully load the pistol twice, and in no event shall that amount be greater than twenty (20) rounds of ammunition.

https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/f... Concealed Pistols_through August 25 2017.pdf

In 2018 Charles Allen introduced a bill (it passed) that instituted red flag laws, increased penalties for +10 magazines, and ban bump stocks. From that law:

D.C. Law 22-314. Firearms Safety Omnibus Amendment Act of 2018.
"(4) A person convicted of possessing a large capacity ammunition feeding device in violation of section 601(b) shall be fined no more than the amount set forth in section 101 of the Criminal Fine Proportionality Amendment Act of 2012, effective June 11, 2013 (D.C. Law 19-317; D.C. Official Code § 22-3571.01), or incarcerated for no more than 3 years, or both.".

https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/laws/22-314.html

Occam · Oct 22, 2019

And just to clarify: even if you only carry a max of 20 (say, 10+1 in the pistol, and 9 in a spare), you're STILL a felon if either of those mags is capable of holding more than 10, regardless of how many you have in there. Best not to take your chances with blocked higher-capacity mag. Buy the 10-round flavor, period.

BlueHeeler · Oct 22, 2019

Occam said:
And just to clarify: even if you only carry a max of 20 (say, 10+1 in the pistol, and 9 in a spare), you're STILL a felon if either of those mags is capable of holding more than 10, regardless of how many you have in there. Best not to take your chances with blocked higher-capacity mag. Buy the 10-round flavor, period.

Agree 100%. Buy the 10 round mag. Do not risk your freedom on some legal trap.

Per the law, “large capacity ammunition feeding device” means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition."

The phrase "that can be readily restored or converted" is wildly subjective.

IJM · Oct 23, 2019

Occam said:
One thing I forgot to ask George in the class: what the hell happens when you're on your way to/from the range and have a couple hundred rounds (at least!) in the car with you? Or, because it's DC, spent brass in a bag ... since they consider spent brass to BE ammunition?

My understanding is the ammo limit only applies while you're carrying, and it only applies to what's on your person. If you're driving to/from the range, the firearms would be in locked cases, so the limit wouldn't apply.

Occam · Oct 23, 2019

IJM said:
My understanding is the ammo limit only applies while you're carrying, and it only applies to what's on your person. If you're driving to/from the range, the firearms would be in locked cases, so the limit wouldn't apply.

And I suppose if I'm in MD on my way to VA to shoot and get bumped into DC for some reason, I'd just go FOPA style. The problem of course is that I carry in a way that MD and VA allow, but which DC won't. I wonder if properly FOPAed standard capacity mags can travel through DC without dire consequences in that scenario. Should be able to. But if traffic forced a detour, I'd have get out, handle my carry gun and mags, etc. Insanity.

Stoveman · Oct 23, 2019

Just a heads up for anyone renewing, it's all handled back in room 3058, across from where you got fingerprinted. Renewals used to be down the hall by the records section.

Payment is now made at "the big red machine" in the hallway by the elevators which takes credit cards or cash. They are not doing renewals on the spot anymore, I was told today to call next Wednesday to make sure it was approved and was ready for pick up or to be mailed.

Shazam · Oct 23, 2019

Stoveman said:
Just a heads up for anyone renewing, it's all handled back in room 3058, across from where you got fingerprinted. Renewals used to be down the hall by the records section.

Payment is now made at "the big red machine" in the hallway by the elevators which takes credit cards or cash. They are not doing renewals on the spot anymore, I was told today to call next Wednesday to make sure it was approved and was ready for pick up or to be mailed.

I phoned MPD last week regarding permit renewal and was told that they would accept renewal by mail. Officer Mills emailed me an application. The renewal application included a place to fill in my "Good Reason" for the permit which seemed to indicate that that was an old form. I haven't sent it in yet.

tom b · Oct 24, 2019

I received an email from DC about 2 months before my renewal, it included a link to complete the application online. It did not have the "good reason" question.

Ismee · Nov 4, 2019

Just renewed, as DC resident. Earlier I was told just bring proof of training (documented on MPDC FRS form) and credit card and i could do it over the counter. I walked in and was told no more over-the-counter, it would be mailed. I was earlier told 45-60 days. I received mine in 3 business days via USPS. all can be done on line (upload images of training document with on-line payment). my gripe..... My original License expires on 01/30/2020 the reissued permit expires on 10/25/2021....a loss of more than 3 months more than 12 percent. imma fight them on this.

So short answer; all can be done online with minimal delay at https://mpdc.dc.gov/firearms

PSA (Maybe)- DC Permit Holders Ammunition Management

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