Transporting and AR Pistol/'firearm'

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

Transporting an AR Pistol/'firearm'

I know an AR pistol falls under the same rules as transporting a handgun in MD, but... suppose said AR pistol has a VFG added. This changes it's classification to a 'firearm' according to the ATF (assuming it is at least 26" in oal).

Does this affect the ability to transport it? Would MD law still look at it as a pistol, or would it no longer be considered a pistol, but a firearm and not be affected by the limited transportation rules regarding handguns?

Melnic · Nov 4, 2016

Putting VFG will make it an SBR if you don't have a 16" barrel and get you in more trouble than handgun transport if you don't have a tax stamp.

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Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

Melnic said:
Putting VFG will make it an SBR if you don't have a 16" barrel and get you in more trouble than handgun transport if you don't have a tax stamp.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, adding a vertical forward grip to a pistol (over 26" oal) does not make it an sbr, as long as it has no stock. The ATF says it now becomes a 'firearm', no longer a pistol. I have a letter from them to that effect...

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

Sorry, fixed the typo in the title, but it was too late to effect a change on the forum listing view... :mad54:

Biggfoot44 · Nov 4, 2016

The answer you're seeming, probably don't to hear ; Md currently defines pistol as anything with less than 16in bbl .

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

Biggfoot44 said:
The answer you're seeming, probably don't to hear ; Md currently defines pistol as anything with less than 16in bbl .

That's kind of what I was looking for... no, I'd rather it not be that way, but if it is, I'll just pack the HBAR.... :lol2:

swinokur · Nov 4, 2016

^^^

THIS

cokebuck · Nov 4, 2016

Like correctly stated above:

Without stock and VFG and less than 16" barrel is a pistol. Period.
Put a stock on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.
Put a VFG on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.

If your "pistol" has a barrel 16" or greater. It ain't no pistol. It's a rifle, maybe a carbine.
The fact that it's 26" or greater does not define whether or not it's a pistol or rifle. Nor does it define it as an SBR or not.
26" OAL is ATF minimum length requirement for an SBR.
Here in Maryland our SBR have an additional requirement to be at least 29"

themoose06 · Nov 4, 2016

cokebuck said:
Like correctly stated above:

Without stock and VFG and less than 16" barrel is a pistol. Period.
Put a stock on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.
Put a VFG on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.

If your "pistol" has a barrel 16" or greater. It ain't no pistol. It's a rifle, maybe a carbine.
The fact that it's 26" or greater does not define whether or not it's a pistol or rifle. Nor does it define it as an SBR or not.
26" OAL is ATF minimum length requirement for an SBR.
Here in Maryland our SBR have an additional requirement to be at least 29"

Gotta love Maryland gun laws, where a plastic stock attachment can be the difference between freedom and jail. Hilarious

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

cokebuck said:
Like correctly stated above:

Without stock and VFG and less than 16" barrel is a pistol. Period.
Put a stock on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.
Put a VFG on becomes SBR. Illegal without papers. Period.

If your "pistol" has a barrel 16" or greater. It ain't no pistol. It's a rifle, maybe a carbine.
The fact that it's 26" or greater does not define whether or not it's a pistol or rifle. Nor does it define it as an SBR or not.
26" OAL is ATF minimum length requirement for an SBR.
Here in Maryland our SBR have an additional requirement to be at least 29"

Is that MD law? It's not how the ATF sees it..if it is an AR pistol configuration (less than a 16"bbl) (no stock) and the oal is over 26" and you then add a VFG, it becomes reclassified as a 'firearm', not an SBR... This may have no effect on MD law, thus my question in the first place as I don't know all the MD codes of law... yet... lol

mvee · Nov 4, 2016

Sticky said:
Is that MD law? It's not how the ATF sees it..if it is an AR pistol configuration (less than a 16"bbl) (no stock) and the oal is over 26" and you then add a VFG, it becomes reclassified as a 'firearm', not an SBR... This may have no effect on MD law, thus my question in the first place as I don't know all the MD codes of law... yet... lol

Here is a link to the law that deals with transport. I would think your firearm would have to be transported as a handgun.

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2015/article-gcr/title-4/subtitle-2/
§ 4-201 - Definitions
§ 4-203 - Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun

cokebuck · Nov 4, 2016

ATF Federal Law

A VFG can not be attached to any pistol. Any pistol.

cokebuck · Nov 4, 2016

Feel free to call Jason Dickens of ATF 304-616-4534

Very nice, helpful fella.

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

I have already asked and received a response to my question from the ATF. I will attach the second page of the letter I recently received showing otherwise... :beer:

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

Now... I still question the MD law, as I don't see where it says 16" bbl anywhere, but I have more to read. This also would NOT BE concealed on the person, as this does change the view of Federal law. I do see where it says SBR/SBS are considered handguns, but it only says a weapon that 'can be concealed on a person', which is clear as mud... how the hell you gonna conceal a 26" + firearm? lol

As long as it isn't concealed on the person, this should not really apply, but MD is odd... very odd... thus I presented this question for dicussion...

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

I'll add, in light of the fact that the MD law includes SBR's and SBS's, I would guess that this would include the 'firearm', but does it really?

mvee · Nov 4, 2016

The under 16" is in the handgun definition under the Public Safety section of law. It is used in determining the definition of handgun in respect to transfers etc.

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2015/article-gps/title-5/subtitle-1/

(n) Handgun. --

(1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

(2) "Handgun" includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

cokebuck · Nov 4, 2016

I miss spoke:

ATF defines sbr as having less than 16" barrel or OAL less than 26" when a stock is attached.

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

mvee said:
The under 16" is in the handgun definition under the Public Safety section of law. It is used in determining the definition of handgun in respect to transfers etc.

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2015/article-gps/title-5/subtitle-1/

Thanks! I musta skimmed right over that...

I asked because I want to be legal, or at least have a legal defense if anything were to happen. It's always better to err on the side of caution, but circumstances can sometimes influence that..

I will treat it as a handgun for transportation purposes in MD..

Sticky · Nov 4, 2016

cokebuck said:
I miss spoke:

ATF defines sbr as having less than 16" barrel or OAL less than 26"

It's confusing as hell, that's why I took the time to write the ATF. Took them a good while to respond, but they did as I expected they would..

Transporting and AR Pistol/'firearm'

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