Imez and Baikal Makarovs not C&R

arbud · Mar 1, 2018

Anyone no why these Maks are not really C&R pistols. I know someone who has had 2 of these, with the movable rear sight, sold to him as C&R.
Some ffl holders think and I agree, If they are a Russian Makarov they are on the C&R list as good to go.
I am getting my C&R soon and would like to just buy one of these.

John from MD · Mar 1, 2018

BATF made a determination that, since they were made in current times, they were not C&R eligible. The same goes for the Yugo 57 Tok knockoffs.

Melnic · Mar 1, 2018

IJ-70 like the one in the classifieds is definitely NOT C&R They are a commercial version

Abulg1972 · Mar 1, 2018

Imez and Baikal Makarovs not C&R

It’s not a mystery, especially since there is a BATFE letter on the subject. These are not Makarovs but modern, commercial copies or variations. I would not want to be in possession of one that I got in a C&R transaction, that’s for sure.

Jimbob2.0 · Mar 1, 2018

Commercial copies made for the mass market. They will be C&R in 30 or 40 years.

Though no one can say C&R makes perfect sense for guns less than 50 years old. Bulgarian Makarov's are not C&R and they have substantial history. Yet all (non Mak but Makish) P64s are regardless of manufacturing date.

Abulg1972 · Mar 1, 2018

Imez and Baikal Makarovs not C&R

Jimbob2.0 said:
Commercial copies made for the mass market. They will be C&R in 30 or 40 years.

Though no one can say C&R makes perfect sense for guns less than 50 years old. Bulgarian Makarov's are not C&R and they have substantial history. Yet all (non Mak but Makish) P64s are regardless of manufacturing date.

I sure wish Bulgarians would be designated C or R. They are so beautiful. I refuse to get an HQL. All the guys stacking them deep over the last few years at $250-$300 will be happy campers.

KJackson · Mar 3, 2018

Jimbob2.0 said:
Though no one can say C&R makes perfect sense for guns less than 50 years old. Bulgarian Makarov's are not C&R and they have substantial history. Yet all (non Mak but Makish) P64s are regardless of manufacturing date.

That is what has me confused. I always thought that it had to be 50 years to be C&R. Is that the model has to be 50 or the specific gun in question? I was looking at reviews of some C&R pistols online and people were talking about how theirs were early '70s manufacture dates. I can't remember whether the gun was the P64 or the CZ-50.

sxs · Mar 3, 2018

KJackson said:
That is what has me confused. I always thought that it had to be 50 years to be C&R. Is that the model has to be 50 or the specific gun in question? I was looking at reviews of some C&R pistols online and people were talking about how theirs were early '70s manufacture dates. I can't remember whether the gun was the P64 or the CZ-50.

The specific gun has to be 50 or more years old OR the model on an explicit list of curios and relics maintained by ATF. P64s are on the list and, yes, some were made in the 70s.

Boom Boom · Mar 3, 2018

Even so, the seller has no obligation to sell a C&R-qualified gun as C&R. Just an exercisable option for the seller.

KJackson · Mar 3, 2018

sxs said:
The specific gun has to be 50 or more years old OR the model on an explicit list of curios and relics maintained by ATF. P64s are on the list and, yes, some were made in the 70s.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I would hate to buy something as C&R and later have it turn out not to be.

Combloc · Mar 3, 2018

An example of the above are Soviet produced Makarovs. Even though both of these are made in the 70's, they have been designated as C&R simply because the Soviet Union no longer exists (on paper anyway).

Abulg1972 · Mar 3, 2018

Boom Boom said:
Even so, the seller has no obligation to sell a C&R-qualified gun as C&R. Just an exercisable option for the seller.

And when you find a seller like that, you should make sure that you and your friends never give him or her a dollar.

Combloc · Mar 3, 2018

Agreed.

teratos · Mar 3, 2018

sxs said:
The specific gun has to be 50 or more years old OR the model on an explicit list of curios and relics maintained by ATF. P64s are on the list and, yes, some were made in the 70s.

SOme of the CZ-83's were made in the 70's and even 80's. Hey, this is government.....

John from MD · Mar 3, 2018

teratos said:
SOme of the CZ-83's were made in the 70's and even 80's. Hey, this is government.....

But the ammunition that it used is considered to be not readily available and obsolete. Before the internet, this was pretty much true.

TLL · Mar 3, 2018

Isn't the cz82 9mmMak c&r?
The cz83 a .380 not c&r?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Biggfoot44 · Mar 3, 2018

Ah , it's the CZ-82 that is C&R, not the CZ-83 .

The readily available ammunition test only has to do with ctg firing *Relicas* of pre-1899 guns . Think for example of reproduction Spencers in original cal , or repro Henry in .44rimfire .

sxs · Mar 3, 2018

See:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-firearms-are-considered-be-curio-and-relic-firearms

and

https://www.atf.gov/file/5311/download

and
the 2008 - 2014 update:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/g...te-january-2008-through-june-2014pdf/download

Alphabrew · Mar 12, 2018

CZ-82 is C&R because of the polygonal rifling in the barrel. A museum curator signed off that it’s historically significant or something.

I seriously think Gen 1 Glocks should be C&R as well. Striker fired polymer frame revolution!

John from MD · Mar 12, 2018

Alphabrew said:
CZ-82 is C&R because of the polygonal rifling in the barrel. A museum curator signed off that it’s historically significant or something.

I seriously think Gen 1 Glocks should be C&R as well. Striker fired polymer frame revolution!

Good luck with that! :rolleyes:

Imez and Baikal Makarovs not C&R

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