What Is Penalty For Illegal Gun Carry?

Darkemp · Dec 4, 2010

We'll know soon what the penalty is, this case has been dragging on for sometime now. 2nd offense for this defendant, first time he was let off.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.u...il.jis?caseId=110104039&loc=69&detailLoc=DSK8

CharlieFoxtrot · Dec 4, 2010

Mark392001 said:
We'll know soon what the penalty is, this case has been dragging on for sometime now. 2nd offense for this defendant, first time he was let off.

http://casesearch.courts.state.md.u...il.jis?caseId=110104039&loc=69&detailLoc=DSK8

Interesting. Did you notice his attorney and the arresting officer share the same last name? I smell a nol pros.

Cold Steel · Dec 4, 2010

joppaj said:
As police we do not create laws (Legislative Branch) nor interpret them (Judicial Branch). Ours is to enforce them. There will be a learning curve until local PD's reset their decades of training but we'll get there.

A number of years ago, a friend of mine who's a cop stopped an old man. During the stop, they asked for permission to search the car. [For new people to this board, the answer is respectfully NO!] The man said yes and during the search the officers found a Jennings J-22 under the seat. There was no magazine and from the looks of the crud, it had been there for some time. The car had been used by the man and his son, and it was later surmised that one of the son's friends had stuffed the pistol under the seat during another stop.

The man was handcuffed and taken to the police station, where he spent the next several hours getting to know the scum in the Phoenix Police Department. I asked my friend why he didn't just put the Jennings in the trunk, or confiscate it, and send the man on his way. I mean, if our own elected officials have such blatant disregard of the law that they can violate it any time and any reason, why persecute an old man who didn't even know the gun was in the car, with no magazine and no ammo?

But getting back to Maryland, I trust that "an enclosed case" can be a zippered shooting bag and doesn't have to be a locked case.

navycraig · Dec 6, 2010

Cold Steel said:
I have no intention of carrying a gun illegally, nor do I advocate it, but I was wondering what the penalty was.

The reason I ask is that I was in a local gun store and we were shooting the breeze when someone brought it up. The guy behind the counter said that not only was it a felony and you could go to jail, but that the state could come and seize every gun in your home, even if it wasn't involved in the infraction.

I know it's a serious offense in this crazy state, but I have problems believing the part about seizing your guns. Was this guy right about that or was he stomping smoke?

He also said that in Maryland if you are transporting a gun in a car, the gun had to be carried in the car's cabin, while the ammo had to be carried in the trunk. That sounded right, but I would think it should be reversed.

Finally, are most Maryland cops for "shall issue" pemit laws or against them?

I work fairly closely with about a dozen St. Mary's cops on joint training issues with the base at PAX. I have asked most of them their opinion on this matter and all but one has said that they fully support citizen CC.

ToneGrail · Dec 6, 2010

navycraig said:
I work fairly closely with about a dozen St. Mary's cops on joint training issues with the base at PAX. I have asked most of them their opinion on this matter and all but one has said that they fully support citizen CC.

The only cop I ever ran into who was anti-ccw was an die-hard African-American knee-jerk Democrat.

kalister1 · Dec 6, 2010

Cold Steel said:
But getting back to Maryland, I trust that "an enclosed case" can be a zippered shooting bag and doesn't have to be a locked case.

As far as I know, it can be in an Enclosed Holster. Meaning any holster with a retention strap.

randomjoe · Dec 7, 2010

I'm sure I'll get jumped on, and I speak only for myself as a LEO and no one else, but I am pro-CCW but anti-Shall issue.

DocPeanut · Dec 7, 2010

randomjoe said:
I'm sure I'll get jumped on, and I speak only for myself as a LEO and no one else, but I am pro-CCW but anti-Shall issue.

How did you arrive at your decision?

Markp · Dec 7, 2010

randomjoe said:
I'm sure I'll get jumped on, and I speak only for myself as a LEO and no one else, but I am pro-CCW but anti-Shall issue.

Anti-shall issue might as well be anti-CCW in this state. I understand that there may be reasons you have to be a "may issue" person... but what do you think should be the criteria?

Is it not sufficient that a person is law abiding, background checked, and without any indication that they would use a gun in a manner not prescribed by law?

The murder rate in Maryland is nearly double that of Texas, this despite Texas having a shall issue permit system and very few laws limiting the ownership of firearms.

Mark

randomjoe · Dec 7, 2010

Markp and Doc,

Personally I would like there to be a nationwide permit system that is granted after training and renewed every year after an annual qualification.

The thing is I look at the ranges and shows and stores I've been to. I've met people who didn't have the most basic understanding of firearms safety, let alone an understanding of how/when deadly force would be appropriate. These would be the same folks who in a shall issue system could potentially be carrying a firearm and depend on it to save their life or someone elses.

I had been around firearms my entire life and felt comfortable handling and shooting them on the one-way static range. The first time I was allowed to carry (while working in a store) I suddenly realized I had no training in shoot/no-shoot, weapon retention, etc. I was woefully unprepared. Heck I had only fired the particular weapon I was carrying once at the range. No pressure, no drawing/dry-fire drills, nothing like that at all.

Later when I became a LEO I felt much more confident in my skills after getting quality instruction and training. I practice on my own regularly, to include weapons presentations, shoot/no-shoot scenarios, weapon retention, etc. I no longer view my firearms as the end all/be all, but simply another tool in the toolbox of self defense.

I guess im my view there should be a standard, a common sense standard. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to purchase a firearm with a background check. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to obtain a carry permit after meeting some basic requirements, such as a class that covers law/usage, safe operation/handling, shoot/no-shoot, etc. A person should be able to qualify and CCW with those weapons they purchase. Real simple, each year they get paperwork to re-up their permit, they go to a certified range and shoot a standardized course of fire with whatever weapons they want on their permit, pass an anual background check and bob's your uncle, you are able to CCW in all 50 states.

Are there folks out there who are raised around firearms all their life and have the common sense to carry lawfully? Absolutely. But much like driving a car there is a standard that must be met for their obtaining a license. I tend to think like that. Those that deserve it should be able to, while those that are unsafe shouldn't.

Nothing more than my humble opinion.

kalister1 · Dec 7, 2010

Maryland is very protective of her career criminals. What are they going to do for a living when the average law abiding citizen can protect themselves?

The owner of Timbuktu was jailed for hiring illegal aliens. The STATE gave them a drivers license and allows them to live here, but jails those that hire them. The STATE must expect them to commit crimes to survive!

DocPeanut · Dec 7, 2010

R-joe,

I completely agree with your statement of having training to get a ccw permit.

Markp · Dec 7, 2010

randomjoe said:
Markp and Doc,

Personally I would like there to be a nationwide permit system that is granted after training and renewed every year after an annual qualification.

I understand your point, but one only look to police who are "trained" to know that training won't have the desired effect nor will it prevent morons from carrying weapons that they have no business owning or carrying. I respect your opinion, but allow me to make some counterpoints.

The thing is I look at the ranges and shows and stores I've been to. I've met people who didn't have the most basic understanding of firearms safety, let alone an understanding of how/when deadly force would be appropriate. These would be the same folks who in a shall issue system could potentially be carrying a firearm and depend on it to save their life or someone elses.

Unfortunately may issue systems like Maryland prevent people with competence from carrying and have only a basic requirement when it comes to training. I don't see this changing. If we look to the Swiss, they have guns everywhere, but they also have a culture where basic marksmanship skills are part of the society and a remarkably low rate of firearm related crimes and homicides. So I agree a cultural shift is needed and education is also tremendously valuable for those who choose to carry.

I had been around firearms my entire life and felt comfortable handling and shooting them on the one-way static range. The first time I was allowed to carry (while working in a store) I suddenly realized I had no training in shoot/no-shoot, weapon retention, etc. I was woefully unprepared. Heck I had only fired the particular weapon I was carrying once at the range. No pressure, no drawing/dry-fire drills, nothing like that at all.

Yep. Because we don't have a culture that encourages common sense training for everyone. Rather the culture is aimed at mystifying firearms and creating panic around firearms. We all have knives in our kitchens, some of which might be pretty dangerous, but we have all grown up around knives, same with scissors... yet we don't see people running up and down the street with scissors waiting to impale themselves with these dangerous instruments.

Later when I became a LEO I felt much more confident in my skills after getting quality instruction and training. I practice on my own regularly, to include weapons presentations, shoot/no-shoot scenarios, weapon retention, etc. I no longer view my firearms as the end all/be all, but simply another tool in the toolbox of self defense.

This is training we should all get or strive to get. I have no problem with encouraging people to get training, but to legislate or mandate training as a prerequisite to purchase a firearm is going too far. Fact is that many people who would do harm have no training yet, criminals have firearms and will carry them without regard to any law and use them, often times to significant effect. There should not be a road block to the law abiding person to carrying a concealed weapon that criminals don't have.

I guess im my view there should be a standard, a common sense standard. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to purchase a firearm with a background check. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to obtain a carry permit after meeting some basic requirements, such as a class that covers law/usage, safe operation/handling, shoot/no-shoot, etc.

Sounds like shall issue with training. If that is your argument, why should a citizen be able to buy a firearm without training? Seems to me that you should not be able to buy anything that could kill without proper training... face it, people kill more people with cars in this country than we do with handguns or rifles.

A person should be able to qualify and CCW with those weapons they purchase. Real simple, each year they get paperwork to re-up their permit, they go to a certified range and shoot a standardized course of fire with whatever weapons they want on their permit, pass an anual background check and bob's your uncle, you are able to CCW in all 50 states.

That's ridiculous, you want me to go each year and qualify with the 20 different pistols I own? I should not have have to do that, nor should I need to get re-certified each year. Either I can shoot or I can't shoot, if I get imprisoned, mentally unstable, or otherwise am disqualified to carry, then perhaps but there are mechanisms in place for that... but to suggest that I need to be checked every year is pointless bureaucracy that will do little to prevent murders, firearm violence, or change my proficiency.

Are there folks out there who are raised around firearms all their life and have the common sense to carry lawfully? Absolutely. But much like driving a car there is a standard that must be met for their obtaining a license. I tend to think like that. Those that deserve it should be able to, while those that are unsafe shouldn't.

Nothing more than my humble opinion.

Have you paid attention to the drivers out here? I know many people who have little business on the road, and most drivers don't have ANY serious drivers training. Personally, I do have extensive drivers training, but that doesn't mean that people with less training shouldn't own a car!

I enjoyed reading your opinion, some of it I agree with and much of it I don't. Nothing personal, I just don't think that you should be required to do more than the common criminal in order to level the playing field with criminals.

Mark

krucam · Dec 7, 2010

randomjoe said:
Markp and Doc,

Personally I would like there to be a nationwide permit system that is granted after training and renewed every year after an annual qualification.

The thing is I look at the ranges and shows and stores I've been to. I've met people who didn't have the most basic understanding of firearms safety, let alone an understanding of how/when deadly force would be appropriate. These would be the same folks who in a shall issue system could potentially be carrying a firearm and depend on it to save their life or someone elses.

I had been around firearms my entire life and felt comfortable handling and shooting them on the one-way static range. The first time I was allowed to carry (while working in a store) I suddenly realized I had no training in shoot/no-shoot, weapon retention, etc. I was woefully unprepared. Heck I had only fired the particular weapon I was carrying once at the range. No pressure, no drawing/dry-fire drills, nothing like that at all.

Later when I became a LEO I felt much more confident in my skills after getting quality instruction and training. I practice on my own regularly, to include weapons presentations, shoot/no-shoot scenarios, weapon retention, etc. I no longer view my firearms as the end all/be all, but simply another tool in the toolbox of self defense.

I guess im my view there should be a standard, a common sense standard. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to purchase a firearm with a background check. A law abiding citizen SHOULD be able to obtain a carry permit after meeting some basic requirements, such as a class that covers law/usage, safe operation/handling, shoot/no-shoot, etc. A person should be able to qualify and CCW with those weapons they purchase. Real simple, each year they get paperwork to re-up their permit, they go to a certified range and shoot a standardized course of fire with whatever weapons they want on their permit, pass an anual background check and bob's your uncle, you are able to CCW in all 50 states.

Are there folks out there who are raised around firearms all their life and have the common sense to carry lawfully? Absolutely. But much like driving a car there is a standard that must be met for their obtaining a license. I tend to think like that. Those that deserve it should be able to, while those that are unsafe shouldn't.

Nothing more than my humble opinion.

I've said before...the Shoot/Don't Shoot scenarios need to be presented to applicants, but not necessarily range driven, perhaps written. I believe in this in the Civil Liability realm. It may not be popular. Perhaps....I just want it for myself.

However comma....in the Originalists view of the 2A, we got along just fine for about 100 years without it. Just sayin'....

We could argue this ad-nauseum...

rch184 · Dec 24, 2010

At one time Maryland Code stated ammo in the trunk and gun in passenger compartment or reverse. Haven't read them in awhile so that could have changed to accommodate trucks.

Markp · Dec 24, 2010

rch184 said:
At one time Maryland Code stated ammo in the trunk and gun in passenger compartment or reverse. Haven't read them in awhile so that could have changed to accommodate trucks.

Ya, you should re-read the law, because it no longer states anything like that. For the average person, the law shouldn't be a moving target, gun owners seem to be held to a higher standard in many respects.

Mark

mackie · Dec 25, 2010

I carry my guns in the back of the cab, and the ammo in the toolbox of my truck. This way there is little chance of getting into trouble, I have 12 ga. .22, .223, .30-30, and .30-06, at all times. It just makes it easier to keep ammo in the box, out of sight, out of mind. Only I know that it is thare.

Teemus · Dec 25, 2010

bean93x said:
go to jail, go to court and end up with probation if first time offense and you have a lawyer, second offense or you have a record you will see prison time.

Unless you live in Baltimore City, are deemed to be an "at risk" youth, or someone with a lengthy felony conviction record (which made you prohibited from ever even being around a firearm of any type), in which case you will go to Central Booking, hang arouns there until your bail bondsman shows up, and then you can simply leave Central Booking and that is that. You don't have to even show up for trial and even if you do, the gun charge will be a minor ancillary charge. It's no big deal. This scumbags do it every day and they still manage to get all of the guns they want and need,

Schwabe · Dec 25, 2010

Holy Sh!te the stupid fat cop with gun video .... that's how you get shot for a traffic violation ... :shocked:

RCH · Dec 25, 2010

boricuamaximus said:
regular people dont need to carry a gun. That's for the police. Only criminals want to carry guns and that's why police are there for those criminals. anyone that wants to carry a gun is either a cowboy or a wannabe criminal and all that does is make our streets more dangerous.

No one ever thinks about the children.[/QUOTE]

And as a father, that's exactly why I would like to be able to carry a concealed weapon.

What Is Penalty For Illegal Gun Carry?

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Will work for ammo.

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