AR-15 Alternatives?

NittanyLion · Aug 14, 2008

So if I like the idea of a special purpose / tactical type rifle but don't want the looks or expense of an AR, are there any good alternatives out there?

I found the Remington 7615 Tactical.

Looks nice, but geez, for the money I might as well just get an AR. Is there anything else out there that might be similar to this but maybe a little more economical?

Qbeam · Aug 14, 2008

Ruger Mini-14, new or used?
Maybe a Kel-Tec (may get flamed by other members, but looking at cost)?

Did you want to stick with the same caliber (.223)?

gunconnection · Aug 14, 2008

I had a Remington 7615, it shot terrific. I was able to shoot inside 1" @ 100 yards(with a scope on it). I sacrificed it when I open my store, I wish I didn't.
It was a great gun, but it was no replacement for a nice AR. :thumbsup:

Simon Yu · Aug 14, 2008

NittanyLion said:
So if I like the idea of a special purpose / tactical type rifle but don't want the looks or expense of an AR, are there any good alternatives out there?

I found the Remington 7615 Tactical.

Looks nice, but geez, for the money I might as well just get an AR. Is there anything else out there that might be similar to this but maybe a little more economical?

For the same caliber, it's tough to beat the AR for tactical type rifles. Supply and demand allow for lower prices due to so many companies making and selling the parts.

A Ruger mini-14 is the only thing that comes to my admittedly limited mind in this matter, but it's not exactly a tactical rifle, isn't known for being accurate, and I've heard that finding magazines with a capacity greater than 10 can be a pain for civilians.

Going outside of the .223 caliber, there is of course the AK-47 platform. More economical generally, but you can pick up lemons in the lower price ranges.

zoostation · Aug 15, 2008

The 7615 was designed to fit a niche in the market for police sales. Remington hoped to sell them to police departments who wanted rifles but whose leaders didn't have the balls to buy scary AR's. Since most departments have carried pump shotguns for decades, it seemed like a natural flow to add a rifle with the same operating system. The idea never really took off. There's no denying it's a nice rifle and well made, but it's still a pump gun. For the same price or less than a 7615 you can pick up one of the Century Arms AR15 sporters that are pretty nice, and are also HBAR so cash and carry. Olympic Arms also makes a basic AR called the Plinker Plus that is decent for the money. Dealer prices on both run around $599.

Other than that, a Mini 14 is an excellent rifle, and I really like the Kel Tec Su-16 as well, even though a lot of it is polymer. Those will both likely run you from $400-600 depending on condition, new/used, etc. The KT should be a little cheaper than a Mini, down around 400 bucks or so. They are also cash and carry, form 4473.

K Train · Aug 15, 2008

you can try an AK-47, SKS style of weapon, even a FAL or CETME. they are different calibers and cheaper and are decent firearms. if you really wanna get a nice tactical rifle try the Springfield M1A or M21 rifles, you'll spend more money on these, but they're worth it!

RipkinC · Aug 15, 2008

Besides already said... The XCR is a great feeling gun, Best of the AR, FAL and AK in a great platform. But its downside is its maker (Many dislike Robinson due to their M96 sudden droop off the earth.) THe XCR is about the same price or more than the AR.
As far as other go, if accuracy is no issue the SKS is your best option for price and parts, AK is Second (more $$, prob more part options)
A far out options are the SCAR, COBB (multi cal system) and var bull-pup rifles (i am not a bullpup guy so cant tell u the names

JasonMD85 · Aug 15, 2008

There is always a Saiga. They come in .223, 7.62x39 or .308. You can also get them in 12ga.

Or, you could go with a Daewoo K2 if you really wanted to stay in .223. The Daewoo is an AR / AK hybrid. Buddy had one, pretty nice rifle.

K31 · Aug 15, 2008

I you're looking for something inexpensive you can't beat the SKS.

trbon8r · Aug 15, 2008

Another alternative would be an Armalite AR-180B. I've never shot one, but do know they generally run a few bucks cheaper than an AR, although they aren't as cheap as they used to be.

JeepDriver · Aug 15, 2008

Out side of the AR the Mini 14 is about the only choice for a reasonalble priced reliable rifle.

The Remington 7615's are decent rifles, but as already stated & for the money, you might as well get an AR.

Or there is the SAR-3. An AK in .223. Mags may be an issue, not really sure though, never really messed with these and looked into what's out there.

RipkinC · Aug 15, 2008

Man I cant believe I forgot and so did others.. the Sig 556, though its the same price or more

NittanyLion · Aug 15, 2008

Thanks guys. Been reading all the suggestions and looking stuff up but haven't had time to reply. Basically what I'm looking for is something that could function as a tactical or special purpose sort of rifle, but isn't an AR-15. That just screams "gun nut" and "toy" to me. I do like them and they look pretty badass

, but that isn't what I'm looking for. I'm a stealthy low key sort of guy and don't like big shiny toys.

The Ruger Mini-14 looks pretty nice. I think that's more along the lines of what I might be looking for than the Remington 7615, but if it's not a very accurate gun then that's a bit of a bummer. I'll check out the SKS, Saiga, Sig 556, and all of the other suggestions.

Just curious, what does a complete lower cost but still decent AR-15 setup cost? Everything I'm seeing is north of $1000. I tried to find the Century and Olympic Arms AR-15's that somebody mentioned but couldn't seem to find them.

Thanks for all the help. :thumbsup:

-Mil-Surp-Phreak- · Aug 15, 2008

You can get complete lowers for under $300 and add in a $400 complete upper and you have a $700 rifle that is the complete package. Accurate, parts easily available, variety of calibers if you want to change, and the more people who have them the less "evil" they become and become more accepted by people.

Here is my $700 bare bones rifle, well it is close to $800 after adding aftermarket stock cheek piece, pistol grip, front sight post, and a few cans of Krylon spraypaint.

JeepDriver · Aug 15, 2008

If you do want an AR, save and get what you really want. RRA is the best bang for the buck, but they are hard to find in stock at most dealers.

If you want, buy your AR in pieces. Get a lower (either completed or stripped) and assemble it as money allows. Then either pick up a complete upper or build it as well. Most gun store should be capable of this, they should have the tools to correctly assemble any AR upper. AR's can be built for 200 or 300 at a time, and in the end you'll have what you want.

Simon Yu · Aug 15, 2008

NittanyLion said:
Just curious, what does a complete lower cost but still decent AR-15 setup cost? Everything I'm seeing is north of $1000. I tried to find the Century and Olympic Arms AR-15's that somebody mentioned but couldn't seem to find them.

Thanks for all the help.

The key is basically to build at least part of it yourself. Since the stripped lower (basically a small part of the overall frame) is considered the actual firearm legally, that's the only part that goes through the normal gun buying process. The other stuff, namely the parts you put into the stripped lower to complete it (trigger assembly, grip, etc.), the stock, and the upper, are not subject to the same legal requirements so a lot of people sell them. This lets you shop around for good deals, of which there are many. This lets you either build a rifle for a relatively low price, just have to decide what you want.

joppaj · Aug 15, 2008

NittanyLion said:
The Ruger Mini-14 looks pretty nice. I think that's more along the lines of what I might be looking for than the Remington 7615, but if it's not a very accurate gun then that's a bit of a bummer. :

Understand the Mini-14 for what it is, it's not a precision rifle, but it's minute of bad guy accurate. It's a tough, sturdy design. AR's are more accurate as a rule, but it is patrol rifle quality and capability.

zoostation · Aug 15, 2008

NittanyLion said:
The Ruger Mini-14 looks pretty nice. I think that's more along the lines of what I might be looking for than the Remington 7615, but if it's not a very accurate gun then that's a bit of a bummer. I'll check out the SKS, Saiga, Sig 556, and all of the other suggestions.

I would always suggest keeping in mind that when you hear "not accurate" concerning a rifle around here folks are often talking about match-type accuracy. For practical self-defense and hunting purposes, the Mini-14 is more than accurate enough.

Ruger retooled the Mini-14 assembly line in the early 2000's. Ruger puts their serial # years online, but for quick reference; the serial numbers issued after the retooling all begin with 580 or higher. These guns are supposedly more accurate than the earlier years.

I own two Mini 14's, a GB (Government Barrel) model made after the revamp and another regular Ranch Rifle made in the late 1990's. Both will shoot better than I can, delivering reliable 3" groups all day long at a 100 yards using crappy Wolf ammo.

In my opinion, for someone looking for an all around rifle for both regular family defense and also a SHTF-society-falls-apart scenario, the Mini-14 is ideal. Like an AK it is extremely reliable and durable, but it also has the advantage over most AK's (save the SAR-3's, WASR-3', etc. like Jeep mentioned) of using .223 ammo, which will be much more readily available should God forbid the bottom ever drop of the social contract and we end up in a Mad Max type environment. And for the record no I don't think it will happen, probably, but it's possible. Check the national debt and then think what would happen if China called in her T-bills. The fact that gold is approaching $1,000 an ounce should give all of us pause as to how much faith people have left in the economy.....

NittanyLion · Aug 16, 2008

zoostation said:
In my opinion, for someone looking for an all around rifle for both regular family defense and also a SHTF-society-falls-apart scenario, the Mini-14 is ideal.

That's precisely the scenario I have in mind. :thumbsup:

The world is too crazy, and it keeps on getting crazier.

joppaj said:
Understand the Mini-14 for what it is, it's not a precision rifle, but it's minute of bad guy accurate. It's a tough, sturdy design. AR's are more accurate as a rule, but it is patrol rifle quality and capability.

zoostation said:
I would always suggest keeping in mind that when you hear "not accurate" concerning a rifle around here folks are often talking about match-type accuracy. For practical self-defense and hunting purposes, the Mini-14 is more than accurate enough.

I own two Mini 14's, a GB (Government Barrel) model made after the revamp and another regular Ranch Rifle made in the late 1990's. Both will shoot better than I can, delivering reliable 3" groups all day long at a 100 yards using crappy Wolf ammo.

If 3" groups at 100 yards is a "non-precision" rifle then that's more than I'd ever need I think. I'm not looking for anything that's match grade and will do consistent 1" groups at 100yds or anything, or give good accuracy out to 300-600yds. I'm seeing complete guns (NRA version) with 2 20rnd mags for around $750, so the price is right too. I checked out a lot of the other suggestions and they're either not quite what I'm looking for, or not any less expensive than an AR setup. I'm anti-Russian gear too, although I know a lot of it is quite good and reasonably priced.

:patriot:

joppaj · Aug 16, 2008

NittanyLion said:
I'm seeing complete guns (NRA version) with 2 20rnd mags for around $750, so the price is right too.

I'd personally skip the NRA model and a with a standard ranch rifle, save at least a hundred bucks probably, if not more. I'd guess a blued model could actually be had much closer to $525. The 20 round factory mags are hard to get and go for about $50, but you'd still save some dough.

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