subguns for self Defense?

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

okay.. Lets say you have access to a submachinegun and you have to use a firearm for self defense. would you choose it over a a Semi auto m4, 12g or pistol?

If you use it .. There will be tons of legal ramifications. But, dealing with that means you survived the fight.

i use to compete in subgun matches. Therevwas a time when I can take out an entire horde of steel plates and poppers in very little time. Im not as effective with modern MSRs , pistols or shotguns. If SHTF and I need to defend life or limb, should my favorite buzz gun be added to the HD gun lineup?

Whadya think?

BradMacc82 · Feb 28, 2014

"If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, then your tactics are flawed."

Survival first, legal battle later.

Tconfo · Feb 28, 2014

I tend to think accuracy lays in the semi auto feild for most of us. Thats what you need somwhat in a selfdefense situation to minimize collateral damage. Just my opinion.. If i couldnt control every round comming out of that sub gun I would not use it

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

many have indicated that the subgun is obsolete. pistol caliber rounds simply over penetrate, underpowered and can not defeat body armor. Blah blah blah.

But i disagree. he subgun is still very effective in CQB.. Especially when they are controllable and have a practical ROF ( rate of fire). 9mm subguns in paricular are very easy to shoot and are more accurate than most pistols. most people find that shooting subguns is actually easier than shooting pistols.

-Z/28- · Feb 28, 2014

Depends on the gun I suppose. I can say from personal experience, I wouldn't want to count on a MAC-10 to save my life. It can lay down a hurting but not in a controlled manor. I'd rather a short auto carbine like an M4.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

Tconfo said:
I tend to think accuracy lays in the semi auto feild for most of us. Thats what you need somwhat in a selfdefense situation to minimize collateral damage. Just my opinion.. If i couldnt control every round comming out of that sub gun I would not use it

In reality, no one really employs the full auto feature to do mag dumps. It is going to be singles, doubles and triple round burst. Which is very controlled and accurate. This type of shooting can take out 6" plates at 25 yards with ease.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Any gun that shoots more than 700 rpm isnt controllable. But if you shoot oldschool stuff like the Sten, grease, Thompsons, uzis etc. these are very controlable on he full auto setting.

Mark75H · Feb 28, 2014

Tconfo said:
I tend to think accuracy lays in the semi auto feild for most of us. Thats what you need somwhat in a selfdefense situation to minimize collateral damage. Just my opinion.. If i couldnt control every round comming out of that sub gun I would not use it

Collateral damage would be my concern and it would dictate what I choose. Where am I? Am I alone?

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

What are my favorite subguns?

1. HK MP5 SD
2. HK MP5
3. UZI full size
4. COLT635
5. Sterling MkIV
6. Lage Max11/31
7. Sten
8. SW76
9. Thompson
10. MP40

Best subgun to buy if you are getting into the NFA bandwagon late....... SWD M11/9 then upgrade to a max11 0r 31.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

Mark75H said:
Collateral damage would be my concern and it would dictate what I choose. Where am I? Am I alone?

In most defensive shooting situations..... You will be alone in taking the initiative to defend yourself or others.

But there is a high probability that you will face multiple badguys.

Mark75H · Feb 28, 2014

I think your preference for larger calibers is a good inclination for SD vs .223/.556

Mark75H · Feb 28, 2014

SCARCQB said:
In most defensive shooting situations..... You will be alone in taking the initiative to defend yourself or others.

But there is a high probability that you will face multiple badguys.

I meant would I be defending others

My theory about the development of the AK is that the Russians asked repatriated POW's why the let the Germans overrun their positions and take them prisoner ... the answer was "They had machine guns!" No one wants to put their head up and look while they are being sprayed with lead.

The psychological effect of FA is usually greater than the ballistic

BradMacc82 · Feb 28, 2014

If SCAR could get a Ferfrans SOAR locally, this would be a non-issue.

A1Uni · Feb 28, 2014

If you use it, the States a Attorneys Office will hold it for evidence for 75 years in a case involving a death, even if you were 100% in the right.

If possible, use something you don't mind never seeing again.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

Mark75H said:
I meant would I be defending others

My theory about the development of the AK is that the Russians asked repatriated POW's why the let the Germans overrun their positions and take them prisoner ... the answer was "They had machine guns!" No one wants to put their head up and look while they are being sprayed with lead.

The psychological effect of FA is usually greater than the ballistic

I agree... Full auto fire is indeed a force multiplier.

phidelta308 · Feb 28, 2014

I'd hate to lose an NFA firearm after the self defense shooting. Same with a tricked out AR15 or *insert kitted out gun that's worth lots of money here*, or even just an old unscary looking family heirloom. Assume that the police will have to take your firearm as evidence. Assume that you may not ever be able to get it back.

As for legal ramifications, you may want to look up (assuming you haven't already) Gary Fadden and Harry Beckwith.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

A1Uniform said:
If you use it, the States a Attorneys Office will hold it for evidence for 75 years in a case involving a death, even if you were 100% in the right.

If possible, use something you don't mind never seeing again.

Thats okay... Its a life and death situation.

I will take any advantage that I can get to win the fight.

rseymorejr · Feb 28, 2014

Personally I would prefer semi-auto. Make every shot count and don't use 3 shots if 2 is enough. I wouldn't want to run dry.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

phidelta308 said:
I'd hate to lose an NFA firearm after the self defense shooting. Same with a tricked out AR15 or *insert kitted out gun that's worth lots of money here*, or even just an old unscary looking family heirloom. Assume that the police will have to take your firearm as evidence. Assume that you may not ever be able to get it back.

As for legal ramifications, you may want to look up (assuming you haven't already) Gary Fadden and Harry Beckwith.

I boughtan AC556 because of the Gary Fadden incident...

clandestine · Feb 28, 2014

Your theories are sound Scar IMO. Guns are tools and one cannot worry about how a jury will see the weapon used or if the weapon is never returned. The purpose of the tool is to preserve YOUR life, not to preserve ownership of said tool.

If one is worried about a Jury then can one not request a bench trial? That's what a good attorney is for.

SCARCQB · Feb 28, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
If SCAR could get a Ferfrans SOAR locally, this would be a non-issue.

But that will not be in the subgun( pistol caliber) category.

Btw.. Thre are sources in the US for the FERFRANS SOAR upper and its delayed Sear actuaing bolt... Pricey, but available

subguns for self Defense?

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