Result of steel out of full choke are in.

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 22, 2012

Well guys shot the gun (Remington 870 special purpose) tonight and shot Black Cloud in full and skeet chokes at 40 yards. 3 pellets difference. 46 on skeet, 43 on full. I will be using full for hunting as I like the longer range I should get. Just some FYI. :thumbsup:

bigjohn · Aug 22, 2012

call william at sumtoy custom chokes. he does custom chokes for steel shot, buck shot and the heavy shot also. incredable what he can make the shot do. makes steel shot hit like lead

StantonCree · Aug 22, 2012

I saw a cat in that pic.........you don't want to hunt birds you want to hunt for sexy men.

mopar92 · Aug 22, 2012

mpdc4511 said:
I saw a cat in that pic.........you don't want to hunt birds you want to hunt for sexy men.

I am now in the process of updating my profile location to undisclosed secure location.

jr88 · Aug 23, 2012

It looks like a slug barrel on that gun.

Kman · Aug 23, 2012

Do you have a 28" barrel to go on that 870?

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 23, 2012

Kman said:
Do you have a 28" barrel to go on that 870?

Nope. That is the barrel I use. That is the gun I use. Go buy one and hunt with it. You will find barrel length does not mean shit. I shoot that 20" barrel and hit just as many clays as my buddy with his long barrel 870. Barrel length is an overrated myth. Watch hickok45 videos. When he says barrel length is over exaggerated he is not kidding. :thumbsup:

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 23, 2012

jr88 said:
It looks like a slug barrel on that gun.

Nope. Not a slug barrel but has rifled sights and it kicks ass like that. :thumbsup:

zombiehunter · Aug 23, 2012

KITTY!!!!!

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 23, 2012

I think John Wayne had a cat like mine in True Grit. Not 100% sure though?
Yeah I am 100% sure!!

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 23, 2012

roger8918 said:
If you got a 7% better pattern using a skeet choke at 40 yards, why in the world would you use the full? You already proved that the skeet choke keeps more steel on the target. Besides you are already at 40 yards, any farther is just sky busting.

I used full last year and it killed totally fine. I was just in search of a round ammo that can take birds out rather than wasting a half box as finishers on wounded ones. :thumbsup:

At 7% from skeet to full is a big gap between patterns and at 40 yds that tells me that in some guns such as the 20" barrel gun I am using that the spread in chokes really is not that significant. A shorter barrel will typically spread faster as I am sure you are aware. So anyway, we will see how this waterfowl season goes. I am sure you have seen in the south region of Pa we are losing a week of duck which is ass chapping. Have no clue what the Pa game commission is thinking on that move?

alucard0822 · Aug 23, 2012

Those chokes are at the opposite ends of the specrum for lead. The problem is that steel will choke down to a certain point, usually around modified, then the pattern opens up with tighter chokes being the shot bounces around too much through the choke. The general rule is that a cylinder choke is the same for lead and steel, improved cylinder for lead is modified for steel, then modified for lead is full for steel. Ported, extended and custom chokes can help get a tighter or more desireable pattern with steel too. As important as your pellet count is also pellet densoty and consistency, you should have an even consistent spread in the center 12" circle with most of the pellets, then a lighter density that fades to nothing as you move out to a 30" circle. Even still, an ideal pattern may only be ideal within a 5 yard area at a given range, so as long as you can put enough pellets on target to cleanly take a bird, then that pattern is a good one, even if not textbook perfect.

Kevp · Aug 23, 2012

Comments:

1. To start, most manufacturers and experienced shotgunners would recommend against using a full choke with steel shot. The general rule with steel is that shooting it results in down range performance one choke size tighter than shooting lead. In other words, shooting steel with an IC choke equals downrange performance similar to a modified choke.

2. You don't state how you patterned the gun other than number of pellets and distance. The results you state do not make sense in terms of what is generally seen in patterning tests. The results should be about 25% more pellets on target going from skeet to full. Again, I never recommend tighter than modified when shooting steel.

3. Standard patterning is conducted by drawing a 30" circle on a blank sheet of target paper and shooting it at 40 yds. The paper should be big enough to count pellets outside the circle. You should verify the number of pellets in the in the particular load you are using so you can accurately determine the percentage of pellets landing within the 30" circle at 40yds. The test should be performed at least 10 times to get a decent average.

4. Although Black Cloud is touted as better, the irregular shape of the pellets tends to give you more flyers than with regular steel especially at greater distance. Personally, I don't think it is worth the increased cost over available quality steel loads. I recommend Kent Fast Steel as a good quality load at a reasonable price for waterfowling.

5. You reference number of cripples as your rationale for doing what you are doing. As suggested by another poster, you may want to consider going to a 28" barrel without rifle sights. You will see better velocity and overall performance for bird hunting particularly out at 40yds.

kohburn · Aug 23, 2012

Kevp said:
28" barrel . You will see better velocity and overall performance for bird hunting particularly out at 40yds.

and that is the point of increased barrel length - shot velocity

sure it can affect the patterning because the same spread is farther away at 8ms with a 28in vs a 20in. but the velocity is the important factor in not just wounding a bird but finishing it.

PapiBarcelona · Aug 23, 2012

And all these years I thought barrel length was my preference for the swing, now I know people who hunt with a 20 imcher have 15fps less than me

Kevp · Aug 23, 2012

PapiBarcelona said:
And all these years I thought barrel length was my preference for the swing, now I know people who hunt with a 20 imcher have 15fps less than me

The point of the increased velocity in this case is that steel bleeds off velocity much faster than lead (obviously because it is lighter), so anything you can do to increase it is good in terms of downrange performance.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 23, 2012

You are probably over- and under-choking by equal degree. Many .tube Mfgs make a specific tube for Black Cloud, claiming it has different requirements than other non-Toxic.

At least with any non-NFA length there is no prticular corelation between length and patterns , each combination needs testing , with choke and forcing cones being better predictor than length.

My M1300 *Slug Gun* uses a 22in WinChoke bbl. I am dabbling with trying it for an all around gun. I came with an IC. My default choke is an I'm , and also have a skeet and ExFull ( for turkey shoots).

22in is an interesting bbl length. Much better balance than my quasi matching 18in M1200 , yet still plenty handy in the brush.

PapiBarcelona · Aug 23, 2012

I'm still not going to attribute barrel length of a shotgun to payload performance, unless we are comparing 18 inches to 34

GUNMANSUPERSTAR · Aug 23, 2012

On a side note, I will say this, the Federal Black Clouds have some massive recoil in the BBB format. Buyer beware. They make the Winchester xpert loads feel like 2 3/4".

blackthorne · Aug 23, 2012

GUNMANSUPERSTAR said:
I think John Wayne had a cat like mine in True Grit. Not 100% sure though?
Yeah I am 100% sure!!

The Duke's cat was better looking. It's name was "General Sterling Price".

Result of steel out of full choke are in.

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