Referendums on Gun Laws

JerseyMike · Feb 11, 2020

Why wasn’t a referendum used for the 2013 laws and why wouldn’t it be a viable strategy in the future?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ba...md-gun-petition-group-20130417-story,amp.html

https://elections.maryland.gov/petitions/index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ba...referendum-20190208-story.html?outputType=amp

-Z/28- · Feb 11, 2020

Fundamental rights aren't up for vote. The Bill of Rights purpose is to protect the minority from the majority.

rseymorejr · Feb 11, 2020

The last time we had a referendum on a gun law we got F****d
That's how we got the handgun roster.

Baltimore County cop, in uniform, with his kid standing outside my polling location holding a sign telling everyone walking in to vote for it.

Do you really trust the average Maryland voter??

teratos · Feb 11, 2020

Don’t believe for a minute the majority of Marylanders stand with us.

GTOGUNNER · Feb 11, 2020

The Maryland Attorney General writes the referendum. you know the question will be worded like that masturbation in the shower question.

dblas · Feb 11, 2020

GTOGUNNER said:
The Maryland Attorney General writes the referendum. you know the question will be worded like that masturbation in the shower question.

Minor detail....

The Secretary of The State of Maryland writes the referendum.

JerseyMike · Feb 11, 2020

I think a PR campaign and referendum looks like a valid solution. If the NRA/SAF/GOA and MSI ran a campaign that focused on messages about gun rights without inserting other conservative propaganda it would go a long way here.

Arguments about constitutional interpretation (i.e. shall not be infringed, rights are God given, etc) and threats to not comply aren’t relevant when it comes to pragmatic solutions to policy problems. The majority of people in MD are democratic and view guns from a place of fear and ignorance. Why wouldn’t the focus be a message that appeals to the minds you are trying to change?

pcfixer · Feb 11, 2020

JerseyMike said:
I think a PR campaign and referendum looks like a valid solution. If the NRA/SAF/GOA and MSI ran a campaign that focused on messages about gun rights without inserting other conservative propaganda it would go a long way here.

Arguments about constitutional interpretation (i.e. shall not be infringed, rights are God given, etc) and threats to not comply aren’t relevant when it comes to pragmatic solutions to policy problems. The majority of people in MD are democratic and view guns from a place of fear and ignorance. Why wouldn’t the focus be a message that appeals to the minds you are trying to change?

you do not want a natural enumerated Right like 2A to be on the ballot.
HUH> This is a Bill of Rights issue voted and passed by the states along time ago. God given right that the government is supposed to protect. Government can't take or give away a right. Period.

bitterkenny · Feb 11, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Arguments about constitutional interpretation (i.e. shall not be infringed, rights are God given, etc) and threats to not comply aren’t relevant when it comes to pragmatic solutions to policy problems. The majority of people in MD are democratic and view guns from a place of fear and ignorance. Why wouldn’t the focus be a message that appeals to the minds you are trying to change?

Dude, the Dems who will control a referendum don't care about pragmatic solutions. They want gun control. That's what the party and Bloomberg wants.

Remember - most of the people in MD don't care about guns much at all, and nothing sounds like an infringement because it doesn't affect them. As far as they are concerned, it's like banning chewing tobacco.

JerseyMike · Feb 11, 2020

bitterkenny said:
Dude, the Dems who will control a referendum don't care about pragmatic solutions. They want gun control. That's what the party and Bloomberg wants.

Remember - most of the people in MD don't care about guns much at all, and nothing sounds like an infringement because it doesn't affect them. As far as they are concerned, it's like banning chewing tobacco.

Right, because they come from a position of fear and ignorance on this issue. Which is why I’m suggesting a PR campaign that presents gun rights in a way that appeals to democrats and helps them understand these policies and the impact they actually have.

Dingo3 · Feb 11, 2020

No referendums. The sitting in power phrase the wording. Very confusing to those not familiar with the particular issue. Bad juju

Uncle Duke · Feb 11, 2020

Never put to a vote, that which is inherently yours.

rbird7282 · Feb 11, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Right, because they come from a position of fear and ignorance on this issue. Which is why I’m suggesting a PR campaign that presents gun rights in a way that appeals to democrats and helps them understand these policies and the impact they actually have.

They don't care. Some of them are ignorant about guns. Most of them KNOW they are wrong on the issue and DON'T CARE. IT'S ABOUT CONTROL, NOT SAVING LIVES.

bitterkenny · Feb 11, 2020

JerseyMike said:
Right, because they come from a position of fear and ignorance on this issue. Which is why I’m suggesting a PR campaign that presents gun rights in a way that appeals to democrats and helps them understand these policies and the impact they actually have.

In theory, sure. But the machinery that is the Democratic party will out spend, out lobby, and dote on the news channels way more then the NRA is willing to, and MSI can afford to. The messaging is difficult too. For decades, the media, entertainment, and schools have powered the narrative. A PR campaign now isn't going to affect anything anytime soon.

Do an experiment - find someone you know to be antigun and see if you can convert them to at least wanting to go shooting. If you manage to succeed in that, then try to get them to want an "assault weapon." Now try to get them to fight for them. Difficult, right? Now do that at the scale of MC, HC, Baltimore, AAC, PGC, etc., all the while they are not paying any attention.

I feel your heart is in the right place, and respect your optimism. But I fear the PR campaign and referendum route just isn't realistic.

JerseyMike · Feb 11, 2020

rbird7282 said:
They don't care. Some of them are ignorant about guns. Most of them KNOW they are wrong on the issue and DON'T CARE. IT'S ABOUT CONTROL, NOT SAVING LIVES.

They do care, the masses that is. How do I know? I’m one of them, grew up with them and live with them. Someone in the HB 1261 thread did a pretty good job of explaining the mindset of just fearing a mass shooting at a school in a “nice” neighborhood. That’s what you’re dealing with, not some insidious desire to control or oppress white rural Americans, it’s just fear of that which is unknown and sensationalized in the media we consume.

rbird7282 · Feb 11, 2020

JerseyMike said:
They do care, the masses that is. How do I know? I’m one of them, grew up with them and live with them. Someone in the HB 1261 thread did a pretty good job of explaining the mindset of just fearing a mass shooting at a school in a “nice” neighborhood. That’s what you’re dealing with, not some insidious desire to control or oppress white rural Americans, it’s just fear of that which is unknown and sensationalized in the media we consume.

Well the legislators DON'T CARE and they do have an insidious desire to control gun owners. As for the masses, perhaps many of them just believe the nonstop drivel parroted by the Left and the media in this country.

OLM-Medic · Feb 12, 2020

teratos said:
Don’t believe for a minute the majority of Marylanders stand with us.

Yeah the referendums will be worded like this:

1) DO YOU SUPPORT BILL MAKING BACKGROUND CHECKS NEEDED FOR HIGH POWERED ASSAULT MACHINE GUNS THAT KILL PEOPLE?

teratos · Feb 12, 2020

JerseyMike said:
I think a PR campaign and referendum looks like a valid solution. If the NRA/SAF/GOA and MSI ran a campaign that focused on messages about gun rights without inserting other conservative propaganda it would go a long way here.

Arguments about constitutional interpretation (i.e. shall not be infringed, rights are God given, etc) and threats to not comply aren’t relevant when it comes to pragmatic solutions to policy problems. The majority of people in MD are democratic and view guns from a place of fear and ignorance. Why wouldn’t the focus be a message that appeals to the minds you are trying to change?

Good. The estimated cost to run a campaign for the referendum is $20-30 million. Get busy. Also, you’ll lose.

The only vote on my Rights that ever mattered was the ratification of the Bill of Rights.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 12, 2020

1. Conceeding that Fundimental Rights may be stripped by 50.01 % of brainwashed voters .

2. We've done this before , and when it was actually close , there was massive ( sucuessful ) collusion between gov't and mainstream ( aka leftist ) media to derail us .

3 . We don't have a spare $30 Mil sitting around , and if we had a fraction of that , or big money donors on tap for multiple millions , there are other strategies .

4. Point #2 was back in the '80s . That was then , this is now . Today we would be blown out of the water .

*************************

Yes , back in '13 , there was serious debate in 2A community about a referendum .

Lalez · Feb 12, 2020

bitterkenny said:
In theory, sure. But the machinery that is the Democratic party will out spend, out lobby, and dote on the news channels way more then the NRA is willing to, and MSI can afford to. The messaging is difficult too. For decades, the media, entertainment, and schools have powered the narrative. A PR campaign now isn't going to affect anything anytime soon.

Do an experiment - find someone you know to be antigun and see if you can convert them to at least wanting to go shooting. If you manage to succeed in that, then try to get them to want an "assault weapon." Now try to get them to fight for them. Difficult, right? Now do that at the scale of MC, HC, Baltimore, AAC, PGC, etc., all the while they are not paying any attention.

I feel your heart is in the right place, and respect your optimism. But I fear the PR campaign and referendum route just isn't realistic.

I have did this very thing many times. Before I moved to Florida I dated this Jewish girl from Towson, a solid 8/10 but as Liberal as they come. By the 5th date I had convinced her to come to the gun range with me, rented her a 9mm with very low recoil Beretta PX4 so I know she could handle it, and she had the time of her life. Ended up putting over 150 rounds downrange . Now is she out marching for gun rights today, I doubt it. But I also doubt that she is in fear of firearms any longer.

Things like this can be done, and frankly it's the only way we will get anywhere.

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